I love newspapers. I read all the newspapers I can get to online. I always do that. In these days it's more interesting than usual. The war you know. Lots of reviews, opinions and different points of views. No matter what your opinion on the war may be, I think it's important to not just get the news and info from one source. I try to read papers from all around the world. If you do, you will be surprised at how differently they cover the war. To be critical is a plus.
I understand that it must be difficult for the families to see their dead soldiers in pictures. People feel differently about this. If someone killed my family in warfare, I would want to show the world a picture of them dead. I have no fear of helping the world be full of pacifists, maybe because I would be one myself in so many situations.
Some say that what you dont see, will not hurt you. I rather want to be hurt than not knowing. Pictures usually dont lie (unless they are computer manipulated). Humour websites that shows photos of people mutilated in traffic accidents are just awful in my opinion. We dont need to see that. A war is different though. It's human made and it's broadcasted differently depending on where the news are coming from. War effects everyone. Pictures and videos are sometimes the best voice in a war. The most truthful and realistic. People who have never been inside a war, dont really know what a war is. We only hear the newsmen, see the marked country maps and listen to the "solution makers" on TV. We agree or we disagree, but our opinion might have been very different if we had been in a war ourselfs. War movies, flags and banners doesn't really show us how it would have felt on our own skin. Maybe a war opposer like myself would have found itself to love the warfare if it managed to tackle the weapons and maybe it would have found war to be a great solution to the world problems, right there and then. Maybe a strict masculine war supporter would have cried on it's knees if it was put in the middle of it. Maybe it would have seen the sadness, the hopelessness and the dream breaking destruction that war represent. Maybe it would give up more easily than the others and never come back to tell that it didn't agree anymore...
Life is like a lit matchstick, sometimes it's difficult to blow out, other times it burns out before you are able to use it...
Why do people have a problem with war demonstrators? There is this trend thing in the news and on the web now, people saying they dislike demonstrators. I want to say something about this. When it turns to violence and rampage it conceals whatever message it was supposed to bring, obviously. Then you have nothing else but criminals that should pay for the damages. The sad thing is that those violent people bring a whole crowd into their own offences and it makes people think that the cause behind demonstration in itself is negative.
I wrote about demonstration in my opinions page last year. Let me quote myself; "The masses cannot speak for the individual and visa versa. Often it leads to violence and a seperation of two or more parts. It is imortant to express the aggression that politics need to be an active element. I dont really believe in demonstration. Life is not lived in a mass of humans pushing on the barriers of the political rules. The problems in the society must be fought in the daily life, not on meetings or demonstrations. Communication is more important than trying to tell the society by flags and banners that you do exist". -I still stand for that, but that doesn't mean that I cant see the positive sides in demonstration. It means that I dont like when people act or think out of a group mentality, or try to make their cause as an excuse for violence.
I have never been an active street demonstrator myself. I have chosen a different medium (the web) to express myself, as people dont function the same way. There is a medium for all types of folks. I write because I've always loved to write.
Onto what I was talking about; being against war, I personally have no problem with those who demonstrate for war. I think it's great when normal people get involved and care about a cause. Whatever it may be. It's not unhealthy with open discussion and a little political expression from the grass roots. If we can keep our heads clear. Looking at the nonviolent demonstrators I feel they are a fresh breath compared to all those smart looking tie men with their fancy words.
Talking about strict smart looking men. Those military men and those Pentagon men, dont exactly make a sensetive girl like me feel safe and warm. Why are they so strict and mean looking? It's not like they say something that makes me feel happy either, it's not like they say something I can understand. Have they been educated in communicational matters? Should they be in front of a camera at all, if their purpose should seem positive? If they run the war because they want to liberate people, if peace is the message, why do I get this feeling that their characters are more war loving than peace loving? Why not be a little creative, try to make a small effort in trying to charm people? Maybe wear a hippie dress and some buddha beads. Why would that be wrong, if peace is really what they fight for?
I read this in an online war diary; "I have friends and relatives in Baghdad... But still those bombs are music to my ears." Strange music taste if you ask me, but I also feel that MTV is just shit in our so called modern days. Shame on you MTV, maybe you should take the blame for this war!?!
I really do want that Al Jazeera TV channel, I have heard they have lots of cool soap operas on it.
As some American serial killers and mass murderers have claimed; killing can be fun! and tasty too.
Talking about the country of the free. South Carolina House members say the Dixie Chicks should apologize for lead singer Natalie Maines criticism of President Bush by performing a free concert for troops. Somehow I think that's funny.
I thought about donating books to the soldiers. Maybe I will give "A Farewell To Arms" by Hemingway, "Iraq Tourist Guide", "Your President Is A Dick" (cant remember who wrote that) and "How To Kill Time When You Have Nothing Better To Do" (I will write this book myself). Why books I ask? Why not video games, movies and music? I guess it would be difficult to carry around. Too bad. Think about all those great war movies and games we could ship off. I just assume that it would be difficult to get your head out of warfare and read Romeo And Juliet, when your in the middle of blasting peoples heads off. A great war game would be better. Keeping up the battle spirit. Not be reminded of better days.
War is big money, obviously. What would you do with billions of money? I guess I would have cake parties every day. I know that that's an evil thing in the long run, there are a billion more important things that could be done with billions. For that reason, I hope I will never be a billionaire.
If my country tried to break my heart, I would move to another country. As you may have guessed I dont really care about where I live as much as I care about what I can do where I live. I'm a supporter of the people, not a country supporter. Of course you may say that a country is the people. Sure, but the world consists of many different countries, many borders, many rules, many leaders. If you really care about people, then specific countries doesn't matter. People are different, but they are the same everywhere.
I wouldn't be ashamed of my own country if it attacked another, I cant take the blame for a whole country. I can only stand for my own opinions and actions. Some people ban a countries products if they dont agree with it's politics. That's their way of expressing themselves. I like to say that I like America for many reasons, just as I like Denmark or France for other reasons. All countries have some great features and we can learn something from everyone. I will have my American products as I like my American friends and think good of America in many ways. I do this because I like to judge people after their character, not after their home. I do this because I think we should stick together and because I think we should share. French cheese is great for some and American Coka Cola is good. As long as it isn't fur or made by slaves, sometimes with specific products it's different of course. In those cases it's not really the country or product in itself there is something wrong with, the problem is how it's made or sold. I dont have a problem with a product in itself. Besides I just dont think that banning products will show the cause if the product in itself isn't negative.
In my last entry I talked about flag burning and gave you some grill tips. I know that you warlovers probably dont like Common Dreams, but I just had to link to this article about the flag.
Lets say that I spoke with God yesterday, he said Bush was evil. I guess God say many different things. What's up with God anyway?
Fun with the leaders.
I knew Bush was the Dark Lord.
Bin Laden is obviously dead or alive.
What a wonderful world.
Strangely enough the domain called IraqTshirts.com is a site that sells T-shirts with the American flag as the main ingredient. The whole site boosts of America. Maybe it would be more correct if the T-shirts were sold trough a domain called USAtshirts.com
I do have to say that I think it's strange how little value human life has in warfare. In most countries you are put trough trial if you kill someone. In America you can be executed. They seem to be harsher if the murder is on children. We know that warfare leads to children getting hurt and killed. Shouldn't those people be brought to trial? I am not a supporter of death penalty, but in my opinion you should be put trough a justice system if you take a life. We know that warfare is not only an attack on a country, but it is an attack on the human rights. Some people are locked behind bars and sit there till they die, others get hailed for killing and are seen by many as heroes. That's another good reason for why the pictures are important.
The war images from Iraq nowadays usually reminds me of those images they showed from the attack on USA.
These comments are taken from the site, where I used to keep my journal, before I moved it here.
You can add replies to the entry, or the comments below.
From The Usual Suspect: This entry was a good reply to all of those comments you have received regarding war. To those of you that support war I can only suspect you don't care about the lives of people you don't know. The question here is not if Saddam should be removed or not, but whether or not you can support killing of innocent poeple. That's the reality of war. Of course Saddam should be removed from power, he's an unelected president, just like the president of USA.
A picture for you to look at. Would you want anyone YOU care about in her position ?
"It's hard to believe that Harry met Sally back in 1989. Things were so different then: Bush was President. The economy was tanking. We were about to go to war with Iraq." - Billy Crystal
From Wiley: I totally agree with what you said about the message being lost if a protest turns violent. Why do so few opposers of the war see the irony in this? I support the war - because I think that in the long run it will be better. Why? Well, once there was a dictator who opposed the world order (League of Nations) by creating a strong military. His people were suffering because of sanctions opposed from the last war his country was involved in. A basket was worth more than all of the money you could fit into it. So he had a plan. He eradicated his land of the people he didn't like (Jews, Gays, Jehovahs' Witnesses, Handicapped People, Etc.) then moved on to other countries. If only the LoN had done something earlier! They knew what he was doing, but were too lazy to enorce their own rule. As I'm sure you can guess, I'm talking about Hitler. And oh how the world cried when the US tried to abstain from that war! Thank god we finally got in there! I'm not saying we won the war, but we sure as heck helped. So now we have another dictator, opposing the world law of the UN, killing off his own people in a way that makes The Usual Suspect's picture-link look kind (and who was treating that little girl's wound? maybe the father was reaching for his daughter, maybe he was reaching for a gun. We don't know, we aren't there.). The US learned the first time what happens when a dictator does this and we're not abstaining from it this time. Regretfully, innocent people will die, but not nearly as many as Saddam has already killed. Saddam set up rape camps for Kuwaitis, do you see the US forces doing that? I hope you read my input for your last entry, as I got it in a little late. There's a good link there for you Raven, and anybody else interested. Also, as a personal favor - because I respect your opinion and love that you remain true to your cause without being a hypocrite, I will gladly translate any Arabic you come across that looks like it may be interesting. Interestingly enough, any time the BBC or CNN says an Iraqi soldier was killed, the Arab news medium say that he was martyred.
From Lea: I like your very nuanced point of view, and that delicious irony of yours. You didn't represent yourself as a pro-peace persone: but simply as your own person. It'd be hard to counterfeit you on everything that you said with solid arguments, ebcause you reached for ethics, values, basic human values, and did not disgress about sterile, quantifiable facts, and other discussable perceptions of Evil and Good, wich i 've always found so vain. I'd have to say something about images, thought: they can lie as much as anything, it depends of the context. Take an image of soembody who fall off the stair and make it pass for an act of the mafia.. The image remains the same. Just remember, althought i'm rpetty sure you already know, that we must suspect everything; Descartes said that it was what made us human (but, ironically, i doubt that in turn, because absolutism sucks)
From kodi: i love your thoughts about the death penalty and war. it makes a lot of sense. i wonder how many people have actually brought that to mind. in everyday life if someone is murdered someone is going to jail or will be executed. but in war the more deaths the better (or so it seems). pure genious. i agree with you on a lot of other aspects as well. you say youd 'rather be hurt than not knowing'. once again something i have never once given a thought. but it makes sense.
From abhorgod: Too many people write too much crap. I cant even read the comments on this cause they are too long. Im all about the brevity. Your post was good. I liked it, enough to comment on. good job. Kris
From Gard: I see no reason to be scared of you, you have a good heart, and that is all that matters. I think photos of car accidents could be a good thing, but not as humour. Instead, they should make you think twice before you drink and drive, or hit the gas a little too hard. Yes, peace begins at home and with your neighbours, then spreads out. But can we control our own government, as we wish others to control theirs? The majority of the Norwegian population is against the war, but we still sell weapons to a country that we know refuses to abide by the UN. Do we need to boycot our own products to make our leaders listen? Or do we just need to move to France? Personally, I'd like to get rid of my "stuff" and go volunteer somewhere. I think that's the best way of demonstrating against all this insanity.
From Elli Schnatts: I love your layout - It's really good. Also, I liked your new entry too. I thought I'd throw in my opinion of the whole war: I think the President has every right to do what he's trying to do in Iraq. Saddam has killed more of his own people then we ever will, and the worst thing is, he's doing it on purpose, when our forces are trying to help them, even if it does have some losses. I think when Saddam Hussien is taken out of power, that country will be so much better off. (I read in on CNN.com that instead of buying food for his people, he took money from trading and made more palaces for Himself, Starving his OWN people.) It's just sad how people thing we want to kill Iraqi's... We're not trying to. We're trying to kill the leadership. They're evil people. Watching the news, You see what the Iraqi's really are thinking... You see People Coming out and shaking the hands of Soldiers, thankfully. We're not trying to hurt them. I don't know why people think that. I'm 100% behind Bush. He's truely an amazing person. It's good to have a Leader in this country who's close to God - it's been a while it feels like. Also, replying to Gard, Peace does begin at home too, but I think peace has to start personally. Peace, to me, is being safe. Eliminating Threats, I guess would be what we're trying to do. I don't want to be around when we're being Nuked from all sides... That's not peace, that's not anything but Evil. I guess you could say that's one of the reasons we're in Iraq- Eliminating the Threat of more of OUR people, and more of OUR dignity, being threatened. It sucks that all this crap is happening, but once this threat is wiped out, I think we'll all be better off. The war has begun. I'm sick of signs saying, "No War For Oil!" Sure, it sounds good, it fits on a sign... But we haven't had Iraq's oil for over a decade. We get our Oil from the free market, just like all the other countries. We don't need their oil, and we're not going there to get it. I just think it'd be easier then throwing a fit, to just stand behind our President, and our leaders. They need our support, just as much as Iraqi's need theirs. (Ps - IM me *or e-mail me* for my diary password)
From Kristina: To The Usual Suspect: I'm glad you liked the entry.
The picture was horrible, but we do need to see that. I have said the things you said now over and over again and as you have seen I often get the same reply over and over again. It's that people dont really want to see the pictures for what they are. They like to make words out of them, long comments about this and that. In the end it's a waste then.
When I have played Vangelis (or other music) to some people and they cant feel the touch, then it irritates me. They want me to explain with words why I like it. I know something they dont know. I cant give it away. They must experience it in themselves. It's just like those pictures.
I like the quote.
From KT: Well, with all this talk on the war with Iraq that you seem to be doing, one would assume you would know some true facts on the subject, which you obviously don't. War was inevitable. Between 9/11 and other situations that have/had been building up, war would have come eventually. Be glad that it is happening now and not later with even more conflicts to deal with. And as for your comments on talking with "God" . . .be careful what you wish for, it might actually come true someday, and you'll have to answer for things you've said, LIKE the earlier-mentioned comment. Thank you!
From TUS (again): I like YOUR quote. The matchstick lifeperspective thing. I can't belive I'm the first one telling you that.
From Kristina: To Wiley: I have given you a reply to your comments in my last entry section. I am aware of all the comments I get. I have a few I still need to reply to in other comments. I reply to all of them, but sometimes I cant do it at once, but it will be done.
Yes, the violent demonstrators lose their message, but not all demonstrators are violent. Some people demonstrate in support of the war, some of them are violent, some of them are not. Often it's not what people believe in that makes them violent, it's often just something in themselves I think. They feel mad because of personal issues and they want a political cause to make their anger seem right or not so personal. Sometimes they have personal problems they should deal with before they get their heads into politics. It seems so to me. Other times I guess the aggressions comes from how the society is and the politicians extreme neglect. I could understand if people went crazy in a country like Iraq. The conditions and etc. If they went out on the streets and acted violent as a protest, it wouldn't make the violence in itself a good thing, but sometimes I guess you could understand it. As I said I support demonstration, if it's done peacefully.
Talking about irony. I dont understand that war supporters dont see the irony in their anger towards the violent antiwar demonstrators and their own wish for a violent war. If you think it's okay to kill in war, then you are obviously on an even lower level than any violent demonstrator may be, in my idea. Violent demonstrators usually beat up a few people, spit on the police and break some car windows maybe. It seems shocking if you haven't grown up with violence and see this on TV, I'm always thinking then -"Wow, I could never do that!" but I assume that far more terrible things go on in war.
In your other comment you say that not all military people are blood-thirsty war mongers. I never thought so either. My grandad was one of those people that came back from the second world war and never became what he used to be. He used to be a great guy they said... War effects people long after it's gone, it echos onto the next generations. What about those men that never wanted to be in the war? Those like my grandad? The only things I know about my grandad has to do with the war, his medals, his scary character, the things he said and wrote about the war. None of those things matter to me and who were thankful for what my grandad did? none in my family, none in our country. He was just a simple individual that had no value.
Because of my grandad, because of the way I have been brought up and because my compassion lies with the simple individual, not with the masses, government or country; because of that I cannot support war. I will never. If I would ever have a child, I would tell it to live for itself and care about people that showed it respect. To not just do things for a government or country, because it uses you trough the systems as a tool than in the end doesn't do the simple individual any good. I think it's all about money and power, not about making people happy or changing the societies into something better.
To do something for the simple individual, you also need to be a simple individual, understand it on it's levels. A government often just think of the individual as one big mass of the same kind. It's not like that.
You talk about Hitler. I wrote something about him in my reply to you in the other comment. Many people fought against Hitler, my country too. People in my family died in that war. Hitler attacked many countries, they defended themselves, just as Iraq now do when USA attacked them. I would also want to defend myself if someone attacked my family. That's natural. If they attacked my country I would probably try to escape to another country, as I'm not a fan of violence. Personally I would try to do anything to avoid it. USA attacked Iraq, that's not called defence.
We all agree with that Hussein shouldn't be where he is. It's just that I would like the world to come up with a peaceful agreement on how they could help Iraq. We should have done it a long time ago. USA wants the honour for everything, they dont want to listen or work together. Bush just say to us that you are either with us or against us. What's happened to cooperation? Teamwork? USA is a country that is good at making enemies. The biggest things Bush have done has to do with violence. He represent deathpenalty and war, which again represent violation of the human rights. Maybe a lot of people (not all) like him in the Us, but he is obviously not very popular outside his own country.
I think that it's ridiculous how the USA try to make people believe that the pictures of hurt children are the works of Iraq. Seeing all those bombs and destroyed buildings and places it's obvious that a large portion of the killing has been done by the USA. The USA started this war, so they should take the blame for all the murders that it creates. If you kill someone, you shouldn't go point to someone else and say that he killed more, trying to make yourself look better. The purpose of war is to kill and destroy to gain power and respect of an specific people.
About the picture you comment on. You say that; maybe the father was reaching for his daughter, maybe he was reaching for a gun. Hey, you know, I think it seems more reasonable that she was hurt in war. USA started the war, so whoever she was hurt by, it's Americas fault anyway. They started it. It's obviously propaganda from the USA when they say that Iraq kill their own people in the war. Come on now, they are people too. Just because they have a terrible dictator doesn't make them monsters. Your comment just shows how ignorant America really are and how little they know about other cultures. America like to illustrate Iraq as a country full or barbarians. It's not like that. We know that America have been war criminals many times. Not so long ago, in Afganistan they treated prisoners extremely inhumane. It's just that they dont like to talk about it. Now they are saying that Iraq is treating prisoners terrible. How stupid, they did the same thing. Countries are like spoiled children, they just point and say; -"He did it" and "I'm not so terrible, he is worse". It's not right to compare these type of immature adults with children of course. Obviously children are even wiser than them. Ask any child and they will give you the best answer to war; -"It's mean".
It's not interesting who is treating the wound. A guy can rape a girl and help her clean herself afterwards. Obviously he would do that to make himself look better. USA likes to bomb with one hand and give food with the other hand, just as they like to execute and comfort the family of the person they executed. It's double standard. That's what I dislike about the politics of America in the first place. I really despise people that try to look good with simple kindness and hide their real character and actions behind a smile. Bush is like that, he always smiles. He smiled when he said they were going to bomb. It's disgusting. He talks about giving food and medicine and talk about murdering at the same time. I cannot express to you how much I dislike those pictures of military men that give food to children. It's not what happends in the picture that I dislike, those men are probably nice to their own children and children in general. Just like Hitler were nice to children in general too. Those happy pictures of Hitler with his family is not interesting in reference to the war. It's not that the image lies, it's that it doesn't illustrate what war is about. It's a disgrace to people like my granddad! People that had the the image of war written in their face their whole life!
Yes innocent people die in war. Others get messed up like my grandad. I'm just happy that I will never have their blood on my hands, because I will always stand against violence. Everyone that support war should think about those people that died for nations and countries, they should think about them for the rest of their life. You dont know how many people will die in this war, so it's silly to say that Hussein killed more people than this war will. The American politics are hated by a whole world, lots of enemies. It could lead to a lot of things. But I guess USA will try to take the honour for everything good that happends and blame everyone else for the bad things. Hate grows beyond the American politics. I have met people here in Norway that wish to seriously bomb USA. You think about that. This is the country that is supposed to be friends with USA. Then think about what the people in Iraq want to do to USA.
I believe USA look at their own soldiers as martyrs too, it's obvious, it's just that they dont use that word. They die for a cause and USA hails them (not everyone of course). It's the same everywhere. Cultures are different, but people are the same.
Thanks for respecting my opinion. You take care!
To Lea: I'm glad you liked the entry, of course not everyone do, but I cant please all people either, I can just try to say what I see from my point of view. I agree with you about what you say about images. They can lie, but I have a feeling that people lie more than images do. And no matter what, I want to see the pictures of war, just as much as I want to hear what people think of it. America says that Iraq is killing their own people, while Iraq say that America and England kill them. They blame eatch other. The important thing in the end, in my idea, is that someone did kill them and the bombs rain. The hurt and the dead give us an image of war.
To Kodi: Yeah, in war it seems the number of the dead is a great thing, while few people thinks it's great to think about how many people a serial killer murdered. It's strange to me. I feel bad about murder in general. If my family were killed, it would be terrible, but it would be just as terrible for the people in Iraq if their family members are killed. Who am I to say that their family should be sacrificed for a cause. That would be like saying that my family is more valuable than theirs.
To abhorgod: Thank you for your short comment! The best things can be said with a few words.
To Gard: Always great to hear from you Gard. I'm glad you are not scared of me. It was not directed at you of course, that comment about being scared of me. I didn't mean it seriously either, just tried to be a little funny. Photos of car accidents would be a good thing if they are used in a serious medium of course. I agree with that. I think it's difficult if not impossible to control the government. I guess that's why the grass roots movement is important too. What the simple individual thinks and do is vital, because the government dont always care what it thinks or wants. Really good things happen when normal people start to care. That's what I think.
To KT: Ah, the same crap all over again. I believe that I must know more about this than you do. There was no link between 9/11 and Hussein. No link. Who would attack Iraq if not USA in this situation. No one. We had no problem with Iraq, so why would I be happy? You had no problem with Iraq either. Besides I will never be glad because of war, that's only something that war lovers and those who fancy violence can truly be happy about. The god comment was a joke. I joke about god, flags, government and that awful Bush all the time. Besides Bush is nothing but a criminal and he is not welcome in my country.
To TUS: Thanks. I didn't know if was good or not. I just came up with it.
To Elli Schnatts: Thanks for telling me what you think of my layout :)
You dont really know what this war will lead too. America has a lot of enemies, now they have even more. It could lead to a world war or other lands joining in, we dont know how many will die. America may be attacked again. I am convinced that they will be attacked again, sooner or later. Common sense tells you so.
Yes Hussein is has done things he shouldn't have, that doesn't make what USA now do, killing and ruin a country, any better. Hussein have been around for a long time, USA haven't done much about it before. I believe USA has selfish reasons for the war, just as they had selfish reasons for bombing Afganistan, they wanted Bin Laden. Now they want Hussein, for their own pleasure. It's all egoism, ignorance and hate towards the things that are not American. If they had really cared they would have helped people in places like Iraq a long time ago. You dont show care and concern with guns. I think that's obvious even to small children.
I dont think the Iraq will look good after the war. It will look like shit. America or England wouldn't like to have their country in ruins. They would be mad like hell. CNN is not always a good news source in these days. It's an American TV channel and America is the country that started this war. It's natural that CNN hide a lot from the Americans about the war. Try to look beyond CNN a bit and you'll be surprised.
War is about killing people, plain and simple. Whether it is the leadership or not. It's just like the death penalty, it's about killing a human being. It's raw and brutal no matter how you look at it. Murder dont need any fancy words, government or medals to speak for it, it speaks for itself.
Many people where I live and all around the world thinks that Bush is evil, we cant go over there and kill him because of that can we? even though we all know that Bush is nothing but a brutal murderer in a nice suit, a criminal of the worst kind. He have killed more people than the criminals he execute have killed together. We should all ask him to be removed. If America dont want to remove him, then for the love of people; we should! It's time that America realice that they cant just do as they please and they definitely shouldn't be allowed to have someone like Bush as the president!
You know, America is the country that is on the top list to Amnesty International of breaking the human rights. America is the country that said no to joining the agreement to convict war criminals.
It's not that people are evil, it's that they have selfish needs or dont understand. Evil has reasons. You cant be taken serious when you just say that someone are evil and that they should die. It's an immature comment and it needs to be explained further. America show little understanding about different cultures and other places than their own. I have talked to Americans that didn't even know we had houses in Norway. People in Iraq are not Americans, they dont want to be Americans. They have said for a long time that they dont want Hussein, but they dont want the Americans there either.
The pictures of people shaking the hands of the soldiers are popular propaganda in the USA. We see things in the news that you dont see on CNN. Those "happy" war pictures are a shame to even show in the first place, it's not the real face of war. I quote what I said earlier: I cannot express to you how much I dislike those pictures of military men that give food to children. It's not what happends in the picture that I dislike, those men are probably nice to their own children and children in general. Just like Hitler were nice to children in general too. Those happy pictures of Hitler with his family is not interesting in reference to the war. It's not that the image lies, it's that it doesn't illustrate what war is about. It's a disgrace to people like my granddad that were in the second world war. People that had the the image of war written in their face their whole life! Damn those images that hail war!
Your leader is not close to God, he's close to hell. Lets bring him to jail where he belongs. Your peace is nothing but egoistic. People has to die so you should feel safe!?! Fuck your safety! I have no respect for the attitude! Yeah, please be what your country is trying to do. Go out and kill people. USA have not been threatened by Iraq, there was never any proof of that. What you really should say is; when the people and Hussein's head is blown off, I can feel happy. Well, are'nt you a nice American supporting the biggest mass and serial murder that exist in the USA!
You are a good example for why America now needs help to remove their president. Dont worry, you will get help sooner or later. Your president should be removed. Either they go over there and blow his brains out, shoot a rocket up his ass or they do it my way; kidnap him and put him on an emty island. There he could sit and gnaw his teeth and think about what a bad boy he had been.
From Schnatts: Well... that's the last time I post a comment in you're journal. Gosh, your so protective. If anyone lays a dfinger in your circle, they bite your head off. It's people like you who should seek mental help.
From Wiley: Despite Schnatts' comment, I absolutely love posting here. I'm always more concerned about writing too much, as I feel like I'm painting on somebody else's canvas. I like your rebuttal - you make good points, but I chose the ones which stuck out the most. "Hitler attacked many countries, they defended themselves, just as Iraq now do when USA attacked them. I would also want to defend myself if someone attacked my family. That's natural."
I totally agree. I never expected Iraq to just roll over for the US, but the thousands of surrenders, and the thousands of refugees in Europe and the US are testament to Saddam's terror. What the US is doing is more preventative medicine than anything. We don't want another Hitler. Saddam already tried to take over Kuwait, and we stopped that. He will try again. Speaking of Hitler... "Those happy pictures of Hitler with his family is not interesting in reference to the war. It's not that the image lies, it's that it doesn't illustrate what war is about. It's a disgrace to people like my granddad! People that had the the image of war written in their face their whole life!" What family? Hitler never had children. His mom died when he was little (supposedly this was a reason he hated Jews, because her doctor was Jewish). He had a girlfrind, Eva, whom he married the day before he committed suicide. What happy pictures are you talking about? What the pictures show, with the soldiers giving food, is that we are not out to kill all Iraqis. We don't, as you put it, think that all Iraqis are barbarians. We know they are people, which is why we knew so many would surrender (and they did). To think that we all think of Iraqis this way is a hasty, ignorant generalization on your part. This is the first hypocrisy I've found in your logic - for you to accuse Americans of ignorance and be ignorant yourself. We have always and will always welcome refugees from Iraq and any other oppressed country. The pictures aren't about trying to look good - they're showing that we are there to fight with an army, not citizens. Also, those pictures are something we do for ourselves, because when our soldiers came home from Vietnam they were labeled baby killers and had bags of vomit and feces thrown at them. What the average civilian didn't know was that Vietnamese children would approach a convoy, asking for money, only to toss a grenade into the truck. The pictures we send home to prove that we aren't killing babies, we're fighting soldiers. We don't intentionally kill civilians like the Al-Qaida terrorists did.
"We know that America have been war criminals many times. Not so long ago, in Afganistan they treated prisoners extremely inhumane." Examples? To my knowledge, reading US and Arabic news, the prisoners were taken in, as any prisoner, given three full meals a day (even Al-Jazeera reported that some hadn't eaten for more than two weeks), allowed them religious rights and medical treatment. The only outcry I heard was that we shaved their heads and beards - however, they had been living in caves and were covered in lice. Tell me what is inhumane about that? Show me the crime? To end on a good note though, I totally agree that we should live for the individual. I have spent many months figuring out where I stand on this issue, because I had a hard time being comfortable with going to war, and being a part of the killing. What convinced me, though, was a conversation I had with an old language teacher of mine who had been an Iraqi refugee. She told me how America was much better - how people would disappear in the middle of the night, only to have their corpse returned later. Women would be raped in front of their husbands and children. There is no freedom (they can't even leave without sneaking out through Jordan). They are abused. She admitted that Iraq will be a better place when Saddam is gone, and she intends to return to help rebuild. She is an individual, a simple individual. She convinced me. You're right - we should live for the individual. I feel that I am living to free every living individual in Iraq, and elsewhere in the world. I know the US has made considerable mistakes, unforgivable. I don't think the US is perfect, by any means. However, I think that this time we are right in what we do. I'm not looking for glory, and I don't think other Americans are either. We're looking to do the right thing - even if it seems aweful. Usually the most courage is required to stand up for what's right. I respect and admire you for your stand.
From Kristina: To Schnatts: Protective? What do you mean by that? You stated your opinion about an issue that is very serious, you must understand that not everyone can agree with you. It doesn't make me crazy just because I'm not a fan of war or murder. I didn't feel that you bit my head of. Try to read what I wrote instead, I have what you call a political opinion. You have that too. Many people have stated their opinion on my site, some agree, some dont and I have said that that is okay. I have tried to be polite and reasonable.
To Wiley: Thanks for posting and liking it too. Short or long is fine with me.
I dont want to comment you on what you first say about Iraq, Hussein and the refugees. We both agree with that Hussein should go, it's just that I think it should have been done differently as I have said. I dont think this will lead to any good.
I know that Hitler didn't have children. I have read a few books about him and his life. Often they show documentaries about Hitler on Discovery and etc. It can be interesting, but it's not the image of war. As you probably know, they used to make propaganda films with Hitler, hugging children, chilling out with his girlfriend and etc. I said "family pictures", to be correct I meant happy Hitler pictures, films in general.
In my eyes it's propaganda, those pictures with soldiers giving food. I want to see what happens behind this, I think we all do. It's obvious that a lot of Americans that support the war thinks that Iraq is full of barbarians. You can hear it in the way they talk. Your gut tells you so.
What America did in Vietnam was terrible. It wasn't their struggle, they just made it worse. We know that a lot of shit went on in Vietnam, murder, rape and etc. American soldiers had their part in it. We all know this.
Well, I read in many news sources that the prisoners that America took in Afganistan had cloth around their faces, they were not allowed to sleep, go to the bathroom and so on. This was serious information and there have been more of this in other cases. America obviously like to hide these things.
As I have said before, just because a country has terrible human conditions, doesn't make it right for you to go in there and kill people. It makes you no different than any other bad guy then.
I dont think human freedom will ever be won with guns. Seriously. In the future I think we will realize that.
Because you respect me for my opinion, I will of course say that I respect you for yours, even though I may not agree with it. Another thing. War is not a normal situation that people are used to live under. You cannot say that the American soldiers have always been good, because that would seem ignorant. In every war, it seems there will be these people that go crazy and rape and kill innocent people. Norwegian soldiers in the past have probably done this, as other soldiers in war have. It's logical, because people react to war differently. The soldiers in Vietnam lived under very strange and difficult conditions, you cannot really prepare a person for these things. Lots of movies have been made about the Vietnam war, some are fictional, others are based on specific true stories. If my brother had to join a war (he didn't join the military, but lets say he did), maybe he would be forced to act trough rape groups or killing children, even though he would never do this outside the war. As I say, war is not a normal situation and whether you come from China or Africa it doesn't matter in reference to how you would deal with it. Rules and basic human rights are obviously broken in war, by anyone from all countries. It's not where you come from that matter, it's that war affect people differently. That's why I think that you cant say that this military is kind and this is not. Of course it obviously matter how the military is build and so on, but I still think rape and murder will also occur from what some people would call the most civilized militaries.
From Brittany: You seriously have an awesome site. I don't really know what to think of this whhole war thing. I mean its kind of like a drawn blank for me. My brother is in Kuwait right now with a gunshot wound and I still don't know what to think. All I can say is support our troops ...they are fighting for us not for themselves. drop me a note if you have time i'd like to hear from you :-)
From Kristina: To Brittany: Thanks for telling me what you think of my site, I really appreciate that :)
As you may have guessed I'm not a fan or war. I dont like the idea of killing people or families getting hurt because of soldiers that joined in. I feel sorry for everyone that this involves. I'm really sad to hear what's happened to your brother, I hope he will be fine. You take care!
From Wiley: Raven, this is a reply to both of your last posts - simply to condense the argument I guess. We do agree on many levels: Killing/rape/mistreatment are all wrong on any level. I don't condone murder. I have never supported a death sentence. To me, it's summed up in a bumper sticker I saw which read "why do we kill people who kill people to teach people that killing people is wrong?" We agree that Bush is an idiot, as well as a terrible public speaker (though the one speach he gave which resulted in Res 1441 was delivered very well). We also agree that USA, and most countries, have done terrible things. The US gov't is one of the largest organizational hypocrites - and I hope that you understand that many people in the US are calling for reforms to the same things that you are calling for (like nuclear disarmament of our own country since we demand it of other gov'ts). I disagree that Americans are all stupid. Most are very well informed. It just seems that the idiots yell the loudest, so that's what the rest of the world sees. Yes, all we seem to get is American news, I'll give you that, but at the same time most Americans (something like 70% according to a poll I read) don't trust the media, namely CNN. We have been lied to far too many times, and to think that we don't take every bit of news with a pound of salt is short sighted. It sounds like we all think that Iraqis are barbarians, I can see where you draw that conclusion, but the flip side is that everybody else in the world thinks that we are all cowboys, when that's actually the minority. Generalizations can be made about any group, and either way it shows ignorance. I, for one, in addition to many of my friends, don't think that Iraq is full of barbarians. War is wrong. Killing/murder is wrong. However, sometimes you have to look at the lesser of two evils. What we are doing may not be right, per se, but it is still better than letting Saddam run his country the way he has been. The US and UN have tried for 12+ years to rid the country of Saddam, and we came down to the last resort. I don't see how we could do anything else to stop him, but I am open to any suggestions you have for this (as I haven't heard any yet). One of the most ignorant things a person can do is complain about a situation but not offer a solution. Giving more time to weapons inspectors is not a valid suggestion though - as it has been shown that Saddam simply has the weapons moved before the team gets there. These inspections could not be carried out fairly. They were not productive because Saddam kept messing things up. It's obvious that Saddam has these weapons, and is not afraid to use them (namely chemical weapons). To say that freedom is never won with guns is also short-sighted historically. When a people are suppressed, they rise up through violence (like the French against the aristocracy, the US against Britain, and the citizens of South Africa against the gov't) and gain freedom. Sometimes, though, the people are weakened to such an extent that they need help. The US helped the Germans, and nobody complained. I hardly see the difference now. Thanks again for the mental stimulation. It's nice to argue against somebody who is informed rather than just echoing somebody else's opinon. I am interested in any links to Amnesty International, especially concerning where they draw their information as the US being the number one violator of human rights. I have been to their sight and could not find these statistics which you bring up frequently. Thanks again and take care.
From tiffany: hi...i found your diary because i clicked on one of your banners..im glad i did..i enjoy readin the diaries of anti-war people...i myself am in support of the troops and of President Bush..im pro-war..no im not happy with all the killings..and death..and im sadden by it all..half my family is over there in Iraq..so are majority of my friends..none of which were upset with the fact of going over seas...they all said..this is what they signed up to do..to not only protect their country but to help the lives of others...i was lucky to be able to speak to my cousin who is out there because of the help of an reporter out there....we talked for bout 5 mins..and the one thing he asked was..how america was handling this situation..of course i tried my best in explaining that yes 73% of americans support it..but the others are going against the country they live in..the country that has given them the freedom of speech...why does everyone is the bad in this situation?? when u should see the positive in which will happen sooner or later...why does everyone jump to conclusions when you don't know exactly whats going on..do you work for the pentagon and know everything that goes on around the coutnry..all the stuff we don't know about could be the reason were fighting this war..what if saddam did something to the usa or other countries...a lot of the anti-war people would bad mouth the president for sitting on his ass and not doing anything against it..you'd blame him for the deaths..just like they blamed him for the deaths that occured on sept.11th...i lost 2 family members and a friend in that..so i know what it is to feel the pain...it saddens me that the war is already happening....anti-war people can not stop it...so why don't you do good for once and support the troops..their out there fighting for whats right..but the anti-war people treat them as dirt...its the anti-war people..blockin streets..blockin fire stations trying to answer emergency calls...there causing death right there..when they lay down on the street and an ambulance can't make its way through there...i don't know you..so if this at all angers you..im sorry..but i wanted to share my word to you..i left..my link and my email addy....because im not ashamed of what i believe in...take care..and good luck in life
From m: You have the most beautiful layout, I am in love with your stars! It is really nice to see that someone online is not a fucking idiot. It is even nicer to see that you also have a sense of humor. Thanks bunches.
From Brooke: I was just reading about how you get comments from people and then don't even put an email or anything. I got an entry in my guestbook by "me" (as they called themself) saying how they didn't like me saying "goddammit" in my journal. It just pisses me off how people think they're always right and nobody else has an opinion. Bleh! Anyway, I really like your diary. It's very pretty. I really enjoy your opinions about the war and all. Nothing will be resolved by killing innocent people. As far as I know, it's the government and not the people.
From Kristina: To Wiley: As you I agree with the bumper sticker saying "Why do we kill people who kill people to teach people that killing people is wrong?" Isn't death penalty kind of like war? They say they kill people to prevent them from killing even more. Keeping these type of people away from people, is what they do in many countries. I would assume that most people that agree with death penalty, also agree with war and the other way around.
As I have said before; I dont agree with death penalty and I never will, but at least the convicted gets some sort of court defence, in war you dont really get to tell people your side of the story. War is a lot more uncivilised than death penalty in my eyes.
I do understand and know that many people in the USA disagree with a lot of things in the American government. It's probably like that all around the world; people agree and disagree with the government. Many of those things that are done trough the governments cannot always tell you how the people feel.
I never said that all Americans are stupid. I said in my other comment, I quote myself: "I really cant see how anyone can be so stupid. I dont think they are, I think it's that they are brought up in a nation that makes people think that everything American is good (I'm not talking about the people in general, but USA as a nation)". I also said that I have the feeling that a lot of people from my part of the world have this outlook on America. It's a bad thing of course and you might call it ignorant, but I think it has it's reasons.
I dont think anyone have cared much or done much good for Iraq before. Besides, USA have supported Hussein on occasions before. Now USA attacked it, obviously for selfish reasons. I really dont think that Iraq in the long run will benefit from this.
You cant say that people didn't complain about what was done under the second world war, because that's ridiculous. Besides the case is very different, because the germans attacked, while Iraq has not attacked.
Ah, and we hear terrible things about the American military, compared to the English military they are supposed to be trained to be killing machines. Shoot first, ask afterwards. I just saw this TV program about this. I guess that doesn't put America in a better position.
As I have said before yes, if you look into human rights organisations you will find that America is on the top list of breaking the human rights, meaning they are very high on these lists. I have read this many times in the Amnesty International news paper. Right now I cannot find the statistic, but you get a lot of info on the different human rights sites and that really says more than a simple statistic.
I will give you some links:
Missing Entries in the US Report on Human Rights
Amnesty International Report 2001
About the Geneva Conventions
Covering events from 2000
Human Rights in the U.S.
I have answered your other comment points in my new entry.
To Tiffany: Well, I'm glad I dont have any personal friends in Iraq, I'm very glad my country dont support the war. Most of the things you mention, I have given my opinion on in my comments and entries already. Do try to read before you comment, it would make it easier for everyone. Now you only repeat what others have said before.
There are those who support war and those who dont. I think it has a lot to do with who you are as a person. It's sometimes important to go against your country to demonstrate the freedom of speech. Freedom of speech is not something a country gives you, it is something you demand from your country. If you dont get it, you take it.
I detest the politics of America, as a huge percent of the rest of the world also do. America will sooner or later suffer for this. You will see.
Personally I am not a street demonstrator, but I do think that far more terrible things go on in war, than in a street demonstration. I would never support a violent demonstrator, because I dislike all forms of violence. I have written a lot about this in the entry you comment on, maybe you didn't read it.
No, Anti War people cannot stop the war, but we can take a stand and tell the world what we believe in. We can be the sane part of humanity.
I will never support those silly troops, just as I wouldn't support any murderer for it's low morality. I see myself ahead of such immaturity. I know a criminal when I see one and they all fit in jail. I support human life in general, those that never asked to be born or die. Soldiers decided to risk their life, the children of Iraq dont have a choice. I dont feel sorry for the dead soldier. They got what they asked for.
As I have said before; The USA have filled up jails full of hardcore criminals that they execute. Why not use them in war battle? Wouldn't that be nice? You say that you dont want the Americans to die over there, say they shouldn't be there in the first place then! They are dying in this very moment, their life is a waste. If America had any sense at all they would keep those soldiers out of school, let them stay at home playing with their toy guns till they turned sixteen and then ship them out there. At that point, age and experience they would be perfect for it. Other people could get the school position that they should have gotten, people that would actually benefit from it and get a job later on. It's useless to waste time and money on soldiers that are going to die anyway. And please dont let those people get any children before they leave, they will just end up sitting there with one parent. What do you say to a child that has a father that thinks it's better to go blow up people than being a parent? -"Your dad did it for the country, because our country is so nice that it helps people by blowing up the bad guys. Be proud of your dad for blowing up things and then dying in the process".
You tell me what is positive about this!?! Damn your American government!
To M: Ah, thanks a lot, I am in love with my stars too. I dont think that you are a fucking idiot either. I love your short comment. Thanks again!
To Brooke: Yeah, it's boring to get those ignorant messages that dont have a link or email to them. Wow, "goddammit" is not such a bad word is it, kind of funny that you got a comment about that :) Things like this pisses me off too. Thanks for telling me what you think of my diary, that's real nice of you :) I will visit yours now. And yes, killing people is always a bad idea I think.
From caroline: your entry is swell, i agree with everything you've said.. and yeah, war is quite outdated..i wonder what it would be like if all the world leaders were women? lol just a thought..
From Kristina: To Caroline: Thank you for your opinion. And yeah, I think there should be more women in politics. I've always thought so.
From ali: Have you seen "Bowling for Columbine", Raven? I'm not sure how long it takes for movies to travel the world...but if you get the chance, I suggest you watch it. I think you'd like it. Michael Moore directed and produced it; he's written a couple of bestsellers here in Canada incl. Stupid White Men and is quite well known in North America for his opposition to violence...in general. When he stood at the podium to receive his Oscar for Best Documentary [for Bowling for Columbine], he told the audience that he didn't agree with the war on Iraq...and was booed by most people in the audience--although surprisingly a few of the actors applauded him. Anyway, I'm studying politics at McMaster University and am always interested in the voices and opinions of people from other places...I find it helps me put my own opinions in perspective =) Your post was very interesting. You have some refreshing and intelligent things to say about America and about war.
From sarah: actually, we support this war (or atleast i do), because i DO care about the people i don't know. saddam was killing his own people, using biological warfare on them. he took a guy, ripped all his fingernails off, took him to his house, in front of his father, and shot him in the back of the head. would you want THAT to happen to someone you know? i don't think so. and yes, by carrying on with this war, innocent people will die. but how many more would have died in saddams hands? countless more. no, i don't like war. however, i also don't like things like the example i gave happening to anyone. whether i know them or not. and, as for raven.. you are demonstrating the ignorance that you so vehemently claimed all americans are subject to. you say that we all have no respect for culture and what not. and maybe some of us do, however not all of us. you made a generalization, and specifically for that reason, this world is full of bigots. i'm american, yes. however, i do not agree with half the decisions my country makes. and yes, i think bush is a complete imbacile. the end.
From ali: I came back to see what was going on here and I think someone really needs to reply to Sarah's post. Sarah, I have a question for you: The objective of "Operation Iraqui Freedom", (thus named according to a principle--fighting for the freedom of the people of Iraq from a tyrannical dictator) is to rid Iraq of Saddam, is it not? Well, I suppose that was rhetorical: according to the American government it is. But people in Iraq are dying for the freedom they've been promised, and is there ever an excuse to spill the blood of an innocent? Never. Not in the name of any cause humankind has initiated. I say initiated, because fighting against the Axis forces in the World Wars was a righteous cause that spilled innocent blood, but was inarguably not a preemptive but a reactive (not initiated) action. Taking an army into a foreign country in the name of freedom of the people, and proceeding to bomb their infrastructure, their homes and their children is counterproductive to the cause. There are, as Raven pointed out in her entry, many other ways to deal with a tyrannical dictator via World Court procedure. The United States claims that this would not be effective, because Hussein would never co-operate. However, when the US gave Iraq an ultimatum--forty-eight hours to give up Saddam or military strike--three things were already clear to the International political communtiy that meant justice would not be served in Iraq's case. First, America had troops stationed in Turkey. Once Saddam was removed, the United States expected that it personally would appoint a new leader of the country until a suitable democratic system could be put in place. The United States would be occupying Iraq for at least a short while in order to "create order" in the absense of their leader. If Saddam left, the World Court would not in the position to make decisions on the details of the removal--the United States would be. Second, the United States had changed its story twice and its intentions were unclear. Originally, it argued that Iraq had weapons of mass destruction. When this was proved by UN inspectors to be false, (and here I would like to point out that the only 'chemical weapons' factory the US found in Iraq was a fertilizer plant) the American government changed its story. It now would invade Iraq in the name of democracy which is evidenced in the presidential addresses made by G. W. Bush six weeks prior to the first military strike in Iraq. The problem that the International political community had with this was that thesystem is such that no country has a right to tell another country what its political system should be. In honesty, Sarah, you claimed that you do not agree with half the decisions your country makes...so a new question for you is this: what makes democracy the best and fairest system of government? There are many systems that work, including authoritarianism in some cases. No country has the right to tell another country what they should do, be or believe. Third and finally, the United States was making declarations without approval from the International community--the UN, NATO or the World Court. These systems are in place so that there is a fair and equitable trial and all countries (including those who are being persecuted) and so that all are given a platform to work out their differences non-violently. There was nothing the community could do to stop the US, and the offers it had made and inspections it had done had gone largely unnoticed by the United States who, for some reason, decided that its decisions were borne of some higher sense of justice, and has proceeded into Iraq where it is bombing and breaking the country into hundreds of pieces. All of this could have been peacefully avoided if America wasn't so very intent on being a cowboy. On a side note, by definition and examination it is clear that--as per Jean-Jacques Rousseau's Social Contract --absolute freedom is a falsity. And thus, even the name "Operation Iraqui Freedom" is propagandist--no such thing as freedom exists. We are all slaves to money, to the government and law, to our wants and our necessities...none of us are free. Freedom...is not a cause worth killing for. Perhaps the wrong word was chosen to describe the operation. To add to this and get back to Sarah: you stated that you hate generalizations. That's fair, but Raven presented her argument without them...maybe you misread it, or read it with prejudice towards her anti-war view. It is not an attack on Americans so much as an attack on the reasoning behind the war, and the cultural factors that led up to it. I'm not sure how that led to the world being full of bigots...but if you want to talk bigorty I would like to suggest a good place to start is the records of people crossing the border from Canada into the US after September 11th. I believe the number of people held back from crossing who were of Middle-Eastern descent 9or with similar physical features of those who were was more than eight times the combined number of people from all other ethnicities? A particularly amusing story involves two men from Afghanistan who were detained almost a week for possessing sacks of white powder thought to be Anthrax...which turned out to be flour. They were merchants. I would continue about the word "terrorism" and the connection between Afghanistan and Iraq in this respect...but I see I've already written a novel and it's a complicated political story. Anyway, Sarah, you have a lot of reading to do so I'll end this here. Have a great day everyone...and click some of Raven's links--they're quite educational.
From sarah: i think i read about half of your entry. it was too long winded and colloquial. never did i say that democracy was the best form of government. if you read my previous entry, you'll find that i didn't. maybe you mis-read it. second. i said that i don't like half the things my country does. so why are you blaming me for detainees in canada? and the fact that the US will be appointing a leader in iraq? and our motives? third. i don't have a lot of reading to do. fourth. i used to be anti-war. that was after 9/11. however, recently my views have changed. so no, i did not read raven's entry with biased eyes. fifth. presence is spelled with a "c" not an "s". good day to you, mam.
From Chris: I'd like to see you anti-war people go live in a Saddam-ruled Iraq and still say the same things you're saying. I think you take for granted the fact you can whine about what our country does. Go live in a country where you'd be shot on the spot for saying what you're saying. Also, how can a government peacefully negotiate with a country ruled by a man that is legally insane? Since when is this an effective practice? There's people in his government saying US Troops aren't in Iraq WHILE THERE ARE TANKS GOING BY IN THE BACKGROUND. Sounds like these are some reasonable people. And of course this will be deemed 'liberal media bias' but have you seen the things said by Iraqis in the past couple days? Oh but I'm sure somehow that will be skewed into them not wanting a regime change. By the way, hippies suck. And smell. Like poopie.
From thole: "I will never support those silly troops, just as I wouldn't support any murderer for it's low morality. I see myself ahead of such immaturity. I know a criminal when I see one and they all fit in jail. I support human life in general, those that never asked to be born or die. Soldiers decided to risk their life, the children of Iraq dont have a choice. I dont feel sorry for the dead soldier. They got what they asked for." I had to respond to this, Raven, because it breaks my heart. I am opposed to the war in Iraq, and I am deeply critical and suspicious of the Bush administration in general. But my best friend is somewhere in the vicinity of Baghdad, so my perspective differs from yours. My best friend is just nineteen. He joined the army to escape from brutal rural poverty, to get an education and build a better life for his family. I could tell you about how his disabled mother will finally be able to afford proper medical care once her son has veterans' benefits, or how his father is so proud that one of his children will have the chance to go to college, but that is not particularly relevant. What matters is that my best friend and many others like him join the military because it is literally their only choice. I'm sure you're aware that only one member of Congress has a child enlisted in the military as a soldier. In America, the consequences of war are disproportionately borne by the rural poor, members of minority groups, and others who lack economic alternatives. Many, including myself, consider this discriminatory exploitation to be no less than criminal. The government takes advantage of people's desperation, while the leaders sit back and watch unscathed. Thank you for giving me the opportunity to share my opinion. I appreciate it.
From Rosie: wonderful website - you write so well and so passionately. Its a joy to read. Keep up the good work.
From Kristina: To Ali: Sorry about the late reply. No, I haven't seen "Bowling for Columbine", but I'm going to see it sooner or later. I saw a documentary on it and it seems very interesting. I have seen some of the programs of Michael Moore though, so I know who he is. I also saw the Oscar show were he spoke about Bush, it was a fresh thing in all the glitter and glamour. Thanks for sharing your thoughts and point of views. I really appreciate it!
To Sarah: I think Ali in my comments here, gave you a good answer to your words about the war. Read what he writes. You dont really have any good reasons, when you try to explain why you needed to go to war. Your comments are nothing different than the comments of those who support and wish to bomb USA. I have talked to people that hope the USA will be bombed. They used the exact same words as you use, in your support of the Iraq war. You think about that Sarah.
To Chris: Actually I have seen a lot of pictures and news films that proves that a big part of the people in Iraq, are not happy about the war. And where are the big weapons they were looking for? Where are Hussein and Bin Laden? I would like to see the American war-supporters live in Iraq when the bombs where coming off. How happy and war-support loving would they be then? You are an American (by your war comment it's obvious), I am not. The American regime system is a joke, a scam, a corrupt system that few people respect outside it's own borders. Where I live it's all a big joke. We have no faith in your ridiculous government. And the respect is gone. Last but not least; I'm not a hippie, I'm a European.
To Thole: Your comment tells us that those who run wars, are taking advantage of people that live under difficult conditions. I feel sorry for those people. My granddad fought in the second world war and he was never the same man again. It's all sad stories and the governments and systems should be blamed for this. I will never support what the soldier do, I can however feel sorry for him and his life. -But if we want to end wars, we must also stand against the soldier.
To Rosie: Thanks for your kind and sweet words!
From sarah: Kristina: listen, ali's comment is full of unecessary wordings, it's inanely long, it's superfluous. what i don't think you seem to understand is that i /don't/ support bush and how he handled everything, i /don't/ support the US in "re-building" iraq. however, i do (did) support the dethroning of saddam. there really is no way you can get around it, raven: he /had/ to brought out of power. there is no ifs ands or buts about it. say what you want, but there is no way you can justify it. he HAD to be brought down from power. maybe the US didn't go about it the right way, but he still had to be brought down from power. no sane and humane person likes murder, i'm not supporting going over and massacreing people. however you are indirectly willing to allow murder to continue. you didn't want the US to go into iraq? you didn't want saddam out of power? fine. let the iraqi people suffer. let the iraqi people be murdered. if that's your morale, then it'll be you who has to contend with it. good day to you.
From Kristina: To Sarah: If you really have read my diary entries about the war, you would also know that I always wanted Hussein out of politics. This war however had nothing to do with that, it's obvious. Where is Hussein now?, where is Bin Laden? Where are the big weapons they were looking for?
It's sad to see that the war supporters from America always say the same thing. They speak like it's coming directly out of the mouth to Bush (and we dont listen to Bush over here, he is like a bad comedy, or some old fairytale). You know the world is bigger than America. An advice would be to go look into the politics of other countries, maybe you would be shocked.
If America wants to be respected, it must admit fault, take lesson from the past and open up for other countries ideas. The American politics is the rudest, most disrespectful thing I've ever seen. I am an Norwegian. Norway never supported the war, but we are friends with America. When I as an Norwegian can say these things about the USA, just imagine about what they say in the middle east. The USA never cared about the conditions of the people in Iraq before. The USA have supported oppression, murders and criminal deeds on numerous occasions. America store atomic weapons. America have used them. On innocent people.
I have written about the the Milosevic trial at the Hague in many comments and entries. What war supporters have in common is that they never want to look at it. They dont seem to know what it is. It seems they only respect what comes out of their own country. -If you shot them, then it's good. If you try to solve it, then it's good. But when someone else try to do something, kill or solve, then it's always a bad idea.
We dont believe in the American government, just as we dont believe in the Iraq regime. Hussein is criminal, Bin Laden is a criminal and Bush is one too. They should all be removed. My country (Norway) have been threatened by Bin Laden after the attack on Iraq. How nice! We will thank your government for it! We have seen pictures and films with angry suffering Iraqis.
And wow! They wanted to save Iraq with guns and bombs, how smart, not even a child could think of something so brave. Maybe they should get a medal for intellect. In my opinion there should at least be one dead American soldier for every hurt civilian. The hate for the American government is now stronger that it ever were before the September 11th. It's sad to see, but as they say; what goes around comes around.
From sarah: but don't you see? you're just as bad as the people you're against. don't you realize that i KNOW the US is not perfect? don't you realize that i KNOW bush is a moron? don't you think i KNOW that america does things mostly because they will benefit? i KNOW these things. the problem, my dear friend, is that you don't want to even let the thought run through your head that i am aware of these things, that i realize the world, that america, is a fucked up place. anywhere you go, the world is fucked up. you know what? it's called human nature. people aren't perfect. wow that's a shocker, guess you never thought of that. another thing: i'm perfectly aware that there IS a world outside of the US. do you know what? last year, for the whole year, i did not stand for the pledge of allegiance. why? because i don't believe in a lot of the things my country does. but you know what, until people like you, until people everywhere, stop thinking about countries as seperate entities, the world is going to go nowhere. see the problem is, adults become cold, and look at things differently. if the world were run by children, the world would be a better place. because kids don't look at people and judge them by where they live, what they look like. they look at people as what they are: people. go read To Kill a Mockingbird by Harper Lee if you haven't already. the thing is, YOU don't want to open YOUR eyes, and even let the thought cross that mind of yours, that maybe i don't infact like bush, maybe i don't like the US government. you're to biased and closed minded, that you think that everyone from the US supports the country, are ardent nationalists, and are fat tubs of lard that sit in front of the tv all day, thinking "DAMN, i wanna go kill me some of sadaams cohorts, because goshdarn, Bush says we're waging war on terror" just because i live in the US, don't blame me for things bush does. not to mention you're bringing up the same points over and over again and obviously not reading my comments at all because i keep having to explain to you that i don't support most of the things bush does, and i don't like 99.99999% of the things the US does. "I really cant see how anyone can be so stupid. I dont think they are, I think it's that they are brought up in a nation that makes people think that everything American is good (I'm not talking about the people in general, but USA as a nation)". see, you are only too easily proving my point. you are biased, you are closed-minded, you are exactly what i detest. you are your own worst enemy.
From TGZ: Oh and you shoulda just said you were pretentious, instead of European. Y'know? So like.. How ya doin baby. Yeah, wot?
From Kristina: To Sarah: I am against war because I dont think violence is something posetive. To me it doesn't matter if they use a gun to create order and peace or do it to create slavery. If my country went to war I would hate it just as much as I would hate it if someone attacked us. I will never agree with war.
I love America for a lot of things. I have American friends. I think my country has a lot to learn from the USA. I have also written this in my entries when I talked about my disappointment about the American politics. For me it's important to state my love for America, just as it's important to state my opinion about it's politics.
I have written about these issues because I know there are things that should have been different, everywhere. I write because I care. Because I have faith in people, because I think we will mature and change, grow beyond violence. I write with people like yourself, because I think communication is the key.
Countries will be separate entities until we realize that war cuts us even further apart. This is not an individual decision, it's a choice by the masses and those who run things. There are children in all countries and I will never respect any bombing, no matter if it comes from your country or mine. It goes against everything I believe in. And to me it doesn't matter if the person comes from Africa or USA. Cultures are different, but people are the same everywhere. I wish we could all communicate and try to solve things peacefully. It takes courage to try to cross the borders, the Iraq war shows cowardly behaviour.
And oh, I have read "To Kill a Mockingbird" by Harper Lee. I have also read books about Martin Luther King, Mahatma Gandhi and even Hitler. I dont agree with everything I read, but I think it's important to get an understanding of the different types of people. So, I'm sorry to tell you; I'm not narrow minded just because I dont agree with the American war politics. I am actually a very open minded person. I'm very respectful of peoples opinions. I'm very patient and I'm very gentle. You have your ideas, I have mine, this has nothing to do with being narrow minded.
Another thing; I never blamed you for the things Bush does. Like I said; I have American friends, a lot of them agree with me, some dont. We can talk about things, but it takes maturity to understand that the critic of a countries politics has nothing to do with being against the people. You must try to understand that.
I dont think I have written the same thing over and over without a purpose. I like to apologize if I have.
To TGZ: I deleted one of your images because it was too big for this page and it cluttered up things. If you add image resize codes it would be perfect. Otherwise I never delete anything.
I think everyone are pretentious at times, no matter where we come from. A big bunch of people outside and inside America didn't agree with the war. It is important for us to state it. I was really sad when it it happened anyway. I think a lot of people here want to believe in The Hague Convention and it's depressing to see that things haven't changed much.
Thanks for the concern by the way. I'm fine. Hope you are too.
From sarah: i chose not to delete that entry in my notes, because for the first time in a while you talked to me like a person, not an american. thank you. i'm glad you've read To Kill a Mockingbird, it's a wonderful and beautiful book and i think everyone should read it at some point in their lives. you must understand that i too don't support bombing, etc. my big thing is, that somehow, some way, sadaam had to be taken out. although the iraqi's may protest against america's intrusion, you have to look at it from outside. they're actually protesting. praise the fucking lord, they are able to actually protest. i don't agree with what the US is doing, how they are setting up a puppet government. however, i am glad that sadaam is out of there. i was not calling you narrow minded for not liking US war politics. by all means, dissagree with our politics. they are screwed up and full of corruption, just like every other government. i mean, don't even get me started on the whole palestine/israel thing, cause by god the US is completely wrong in that. any how, i'm off track, forgive me. disagree with our politics, but for the love of individuality, please don't treat me like an "american" or label me an "american", i've grown up with a somewhat different outlook on the US since i was little, my dad's not a hardcore american supporter, and i've been talking politics with him since i was little. my father's from ecuador, and grew up there, so he sees things a lot differently, and doesn't mind bashing the US politics sometimes, because hey, the US is made up of humans too you know, they make mistakes. you have been somewhat redundant in your entries, but whatever. every night at 9 o'clock, i sit with my dad and watch the spanish news until 11. they talk about the venezuela issue, the guerilla communists issue, things of that nature. i must say, direct TV is wonderful. it's cheaper than cable TV and you get lots of international channels (except you can't watch TV in the rain). i've watched documentaries on issues in the middle east, i've seen debates between students from the US and students from middle eastern countries. i don't try to come off like i know a whole lot about politics, but i do try to educate myself, and i am aware of how other country's politics are. if you ever get the chance, or maybe you have already, read "Civil Disobedience" by Henry David Thoreau. thoreau is my favorite transcendentalist, and i did a research paper on him... i think you'll five C.D. very interesting, and you may be able to somewhat parallel it to this. it discusses the "Mexican War" as it's called in my history text book. the Mexican war was in the early to mid 1800's between america and Mexico, and thoreau really opposed it, anyhow, read it if you're interested.. or don't, it makes no difference, i just thought i'd put it out there. just try to remember that these so called 'americans' are trying their best, they're just human, they're not perfect, and they're wrong a lot of the time.. but there's just as much corruption in the US government, as there is in the next country's... and sometimes, every so often, the US will do something right and humane. they're still learning.. give them time.
From Kristina: To Sarah: I would talk to an American in a humane way even if Americans weren't humans. I would do the same to Hussein, Bush and Bin Laden. They are are humans too. I think my entries have been humane.
You must understand that America in these days, have lit a fire to people hate with their "American love". We have seen terrible pictures from the Iraq war and at the same time (some) Americans hail their country with flags and banners all over the web. They write about their great "American freedom" and forget that the rest of the world see all of this from an outsiders perspective.
I have to say I really detest the act of hailing a country in war times. It makes people seem selfish and very unprincipled. It makes you feel that you wouldn't want to have such a person as your neighbour.
Maybe my opinion or expression have seemed harsh at times, but it's because it offends me, the flag hailing and the pride. I would never raise the Norwegian flag if my country went out in war. I dont need that type of pride. Because for me; people are people. Flags are something that separates us.
Where is the gentleness in the flag hailers?
If you supported this war you also support murder on innocent people. War kills. It's double standard to claim that you dont support murder when you agree with war. It's that type of attitude that leaves the world to stay in the past, violence breeds violence and when people dont want to stand up against it, things will never change. Cant you see?
Yes I hope people and countries will learn and change in time. I have faith in people, but I will never have faith in something that destroy peoples hopes, dreams and lives.
Thanks for the book recommendation, I will check out "Civil Disobedience" by Henry David Thoreau. Take care.
From sarah: see the thing is, maybe i don't agree with this so called "flag hailing". all you're doing is picking one specific after the next and attacking me with them like it's my fault and that i do the said specific. i destest the act of 'flag hailing' too. last year all year i dind't stand for the pledge of allegiance at my school. i don't like flag hailing because i don't feel that the words to the pledge are true, and i would feel wrong standing for the pledge. however, that's not to say that other people do believe in the words they are saying when they say the pledge, or when they put an american flag on their house or their web page. why do you hate it when people put flags on their things? not only is it their site, but it's their right to express how they feel. who's to say they do it because they are selfish and unprincipled? many of them do it to support the troops that aren't here, and wish them a safe return. and i know you're going to go off on a rant of how it's wrong to support the american troops. however i think that's a load of bullshit because 1. my brother is in the army, so it's a personal matter, and i think it would be different if you had a sibling in the army. 2. not all the people in the army chose to be in the army. a lot of them had no alternative. 3. even if one doesn't agree with what the american troops are doing, you're being selfish and rude if you wish them ill. they're only doing what they're told to do, because they can't disobey orders.. they could get thrown in jail. i'm not double standardizing with this because i DONT believe in murder, and i believe that sadaam had to be taken out of power because of what he was doing. and yes, i'm well aware innocent people died because of the american troops. however innocent people also died with sadaam in power. so you know, you're double standardizing too.
From Kristina: To Sarah: I wasn't attacking you, I was trying to explain why I feel the way I do about the American pride in war times. Not all Americans stand for this pride, so it's not about Americans, it's about the way people react to war.
I said it made me feel that they present themselves to be selfish and unprincipled by hailing the American flag in war times. You pick a side by picking a flag. They have a free choice to do so, I respect the free choice, but I dont always agree with it and often it makes you feel ill. I dont hate their choice, I just detest it and I also told you why in my previous comment.
People that fight in an army are people too. I think it's sad no matter who gets killed in war. My granddad fought in the second world war and was marked for life. In my family, no one respected him or thanked him for that, it wasn't his choice.
It's a personal matter for me to always stand against war. I would do it just for that soldier. Support his free choice to be able to say; "NO! I want to have my own life. I will not go out and get killed or kill for my government. My personal freedom would be offended if I went to war. Everything I believe and stand for would be damaged. I have friends and family that would suffer if I went to war. I dont want to waste my life for something so old-fashioned.. My brother never went to the military, for that he nearly had to go to jail. In Norway today, we dont have much military system left, so they are obviously not so strict about it anymore.
Tell me what freedom is, in a country that send people who dont want to go to war to jail?
Personally I support the life of a soldier, but when he kills a man he have made himself a murderer. If we should follow the American law system, it's fair that there will be one dead soldier for every dead civilian.
See, we were raised by an anti-violent belief and if my brother went to the military by choice, it's not something I would be able to support. If my brother was sent to war without him wanting it, I would hope for his life. If he choose to go to war, if he had a free choice, I would tell him to go out there and die. I would be extremely upset with him. I would be upset with the government. I would be upset with everyone. I would say that, but personally I would hope for his, the enemies and everyones life. I would because I dont agree with any side and as I wouldn't want a child to get hurt and wouldn't either want an adult to get hurt.
It's not double standardizing to not wish anyone to get killed. I dont even want Bin Laden or Hussein to get killed. I would want them to stand in a court room. I dont think we will ever grow, if we dont understand that violence will never create peace. The last thing I would want to do is become a mirror of my enemy. War and soldiers justifies murder and they are supposed to be healthy normal human beings. This type of behaviour is more damaging to the future of our human race, than a simple criminal is. It is because it makes murder to be something acceptable, warm and loving. -"They killed more and I will only kill the bad guys". The thing is, the bad guys are people too and they say the same thing; -"They killed more and I will only kill the bad guys".
America didn't attack Iraq or Afghanistan to help people in those countries. That's just a scam to make it look better. They ripped apart poor countries for their own needs and tell the people they do it to help. They bombed with one hand and gave food with the other. The strange thing is that the American government never gave food to these poor people before they started bombing them. The human conditions in Iraq and Afghanistan was never cared about before the bombs were used. It's all sweet talk.
They did it for themselves. They wanted Bin Laden and Hussein for selfish reasons. It's an old well used lie. Hitler and so many others used it too. They all say they do it for the people and in the end, just look what turns out of it. Bin Laden, Hussein and atomic weapons was never found. It costs them billions to bomb and mend and America cant afford it. Now they need other countries to help tidy up all their mess. It's like big spoiled children that never learned to clean their room. When the UN will help them clean up after them, the big children are rude enough to claim that they should be in charge of what the UN will do. I just knew this would happen.
From sarah: however hypothetical this is, i don't understand it. "If he choose to go to war, if he had a free choice, I would tell him to go out there and die." why? he's your flesh and blood. even if you disagree with him you shouldn't wish him ill, he's your brother for christ sake. he's a different person and if you wished him ill for that then you are not respecting his right to free choice. you don't have to agree with people that go out to war, but you shouldn't wish them ill, because then you're just as bad as the rest of them, wishing death on someone. "Tell me what freedom is, in a country that send people who dont want to go to war to jail?" would you like to know the answer? there is no such thing as freedom you may think you have freedom.. to make decisions, to live your life the way you want to. however, there is no such thing as freedom. you still go by a set of rules, just like everyone else, not to mention you will never be truly free because there are things that humans HAVE to do, however tedious, to survive. there is no such thing as freedom. we are all affected by everyone else around us. our thoughts, our actions, everything. you have been influenced since you were little, causing you to think thus and act the way you do. it's not a bad thing--everyone is like that. you are what the world makes you. nothing more, nothing less. you are what you have been exposed to. call america what you will -- it still doesn't change the fact that you still think in terms of "we" and "them" instead of "us", thereby hindering the thought of the human race as a whole, instead of factions.
If he choose to go to war, if he had a free choice, I would tell him to go out there and die. that's what you said.
From Kristina: To Sarah: Yes, that's what I wrote and that's what I would tell him. It doesn't mean I would wish people dead. I would say it because I care, not only about my family, but also about the enemy. In war I would say that all people with an attack weapon (America has an attack military, not a defence military) is an enemy. An enemy of humanity. If you think it's okay to gun down people, then you are also asking it to happen to yourself. -And that's what I mean with my words. I wrote a lot more around this above and I dont want to try to explain again.
If you kill a man on the street in your country and in mine, you will be put trough trial. While on the other hand, an American soldier in Iraq will not be put trough trial if it kills a civilian in war. I would hope for the lives of all soldiers. They should come back alive and be put trough trial along with their war leaders. (If they were forced or manipulated into going to war, it's a whole other thing of course).
From sarah: forgive me if i have a rather cynical outlook. however i still believe that the US is still learning, and given time (although i don't know how much time), they will make wiser decisions. america's politics are laced with corruption.. and even though some of their political ideas are inane, there are a lot of good things about america and the american people. although i'm not all that certain they out weigh the bad...... anyhow, i do understand what you have written, though i heartily do not agree with it. i respect your views, or your right to have them, just as you respect my right to have my own, however i don't see eye to eye with you.
in a broad view of life and the world, there is no such thing as freedom.. however in a political sense, yes i believe in freedom. and i do believe that soldiers should be able to choose whether or not they go to war... i don't think they should go to jail for refusing to go, because going to war is not a slight thing. it's a heavy matter both morally and physically, and it can be psychologically damaging.
i can see where you're coming from, but i don't agree with you. as for bin laden and sadaam, i think they should be locked away in a cell with a tv/vcr and be forced to watch horrible acts they have commited for atleast an hour a day for the rest of their lives. death is too good for them.
From Mike: Actually Sarah, putting Saddam or Binladen in a cell and forcing them to watch the horrible acts they commited wouldnt do anything. In fact they would get pleasure from it. I think it is safe to say that Ossam and Binladen are fully aware of what they have done and are damn proud of it. It would be like forcing Tom Cruise to watch minority report and Top Gun once a day.