Seriously, kids are not worth listening to, when it comes to politics. Because they speak with the words of their parents. Unfortunately that's how it is in most cases. Kids are naive creatures and the most uncharming features in adults, are more easily seen in the kids. Because while grown-ups hide and fake the ugly expressions, the kids expose it without embracement. If you want to know an adult, just look at their children. Even in the most liberated free-spirited homes, you can find naivety and sheep mentality in kids. You can. I have said this before and I'm very firm about it. Kids must be protected from the minds of adults, just like they have to be protected from alcohol and cars. Otherwise they might grow up, to be a copy of the parents. And many adults still live with a fear of not pleasing the parents, and that's a strong immaturity in people. And maybe they never get to know, who they would have been, if they hadn't been so manipulated.
I'm not saying that my parents are perfect. I could tell you about things that my upbringing represented and that I strongly disagree with today. No one are perfect. But my parents never talked to me about politics, by facts and figures. They never told me what to believe in. So I made up my own mind and kids need to be able to grow, freely in that way. To feel loved for who they are, without serving their parents. Politics and strict religion, are created and invented by the adult world. We mould it around those who have nothing to say, or do with it, just to use them for our own purpose. A child's world are different and it's not ours to break, just because we think we are so smart and great and better.
If I had a child, I wouldn't want to talk about politics around it's ears. Because I wouldn't want a child to grow up and be just like me. And how boring it would be, if everyone were the same. It would suit me well, if I had a child that were nothing like me at all. I wouldn't want anyone to tell the child, what is right or wrong. An instrument, sports or good grades, should not be the way for a kid, to get attention from it's parents. A political party should not be an illustration, for what is politically correct. Love and care don't come with strong moral boundaries, or a barn solution that puts everyone in a box. Why not get to know the child, before you teach it about your world? Are our world so special and great, that it matters more, than the place where it came from? The fact that maybe, it didn't even ask to come here? Parents should be humble, that's what I think...
There is a new law in England, fox hunting have now been made illegal. Because a lot of people in the modern world understand, that if we should have things like childrens rights, we should also have rights for foxes. Children and foxes are live beings. Later on, most people will probably also understand, that gay people are live beings too, pigs and bulls as well. Because today gay folks don't have the same rights, as heterosexual people. When it comes to pigs, lots of inhumane slaughtering methods, have been reported. And in Spain they slaughter bulls for pure entertainment, called bull fighting.
Anyway, times change and people do become more and more aware. I'm very positive about this, because I believe everyone are good hearted, behind the ignorance. My inspirational straw called Thomas Di Leva, calls it unconsciousness. And the concept are very romantic and bold. And it's something I've always felt and thought, in my naive little philosophy. People understand each other on the bottom. Completely and utterly... And it gives me a warm feeling, whenever I touch this in myself. And it makes me less scared of life in general. Unconsciousness are such a wonderful word. It takes you away from a pain, a fear and it makes you feel more or less disconnected. The Consciousness are the knight in shiny armour, that battle to save and ride you into the falling horizon. And then everything is mended in the end and you are born again and tomorrow will be another start. A beginning...
But fox hunting are a part of a big culture. And in a documentary I saw recently, the supporters expressed anger at the new ban. They almost reminded me, of some of those people, who are annoyed by the Anti-War movement. Because the hunters in their fancy red uniforms claimed, after having explained how the fox got ripped to pieces; that the fox supporters didn't really care about the fox. They were just jealous of the culture, that the hunters represented.
Because everyone knows, that fox hunting are a killing sports event for rich people. The hunting are embroidered around decent clothes, good wine, great food and the housekeeping of shiny horses and mad hunting dogs. It's terrible for them to lose it, obviously, life will be worthless and boring in their big mansions, when they cant hunt foxes. They said so themselves, with their own mouth, high on the horses; -"This is our culture and we will fight for it with fists and claws. Because we are nothing whatsoever, without our culture. We will infest it in our own kids, like a good fortune and a ruling inherited disease!"
And yes, lots of people are probably very jealous, of the rich and wealthy. But what struck me as very sad, was the comment of the hunter; -"They don't really care about the fox". -Because if that's the truth, it means that nobody really care about the fox, at all. The hunters were there to let the dogs rip it's belly open, while the fox rights supporters attend to their hateful jealousy. I have read it and I have heard it before, many many times. And those that claim this, are the same people. They speak about different issues and they come from different places, but the words and the attitude are the same. They talk about the Pacifist; -"You don't really care about peace, you just hate our culture." They use two words only; HATE and JEALOUSY. And that's their opposition. That's in their idea, a solid and respectable way, to explain the nature of how people really are.
And it makes me pity them, for their low outlook on people. Because although everyone, can find hate and jealousy in themselves at times, it's the humane ideas that make us better. If I was a hunter, I would feel sad if I really felt, that nobody cared about the fox. Nobody at all. The fox was then, just a part of an aggressive culture and a fancy political jealousy, it was nothing in it itself... And what about kids? Can they also just be, a great political tool, with the words of the parents? I must sure carry a lot of hate in myself, to be so angry with the kids, right? And being a Pacifist, I just hate the imperial systems, because they make me jealous, right? And when people teach their kids, about their golden ideas and great society of pride and glory, it's not because they are selfish and only love themselves, right?... Their own flesh and blood...
These comments are taken from the site, where I used to keep my journal, before I moved it here.
You can add replies to the entry, or the comments below.
From the particlebugger: Everybody loves to hate these days. And the ones who dont do that HATE to love. And the blood of the innocent is spilled. Btw if he is up there in the Sky i bet that The Big Guy (no name mentioned) cares about the fox. And hopefully the people who chase that small animal for fun falls off their horses and hit the ground hard headfirst .. And maybe they have a spiritual awakening drifting in and out of coma at the hospital. WELL this is far out stuff :-D Listening to Deep Forest - Music Detected (album)
From petrichor: Your comments and thoughts reminded me of several ideas and concepts dealt in the K-PAX series of books. If you haven't read them already, I would heavily recommend them to you. The idea of "brainwashing" by parents, religion, government, etc.
From Arctic: It could be that I misunderstood Dag (?), but I disagree with your parole that everyone loves to hate. I know a lot of people who hate to hate, often people who are considered bad people, persons who have committed really horrible actions. The problem is that they don't know how to get out of it, their lack of self control coupled with stress and a lynching mentality from the society makes it often impossible for prisoners to reform, no matter how much they desire a change in themselves. There is a LOT of shades here, as everyone knows.
When it comes to hating a narrowly defined "other side" as an enemy on the political arena, hate is often used and disguised as a unifying front from the haters to overrun any idea that there is anything wrong with your own side (agenda), whatever that includes. Simple, but effective.
In general, almost no one have the possibility to relax and just look at themselves in relation to the world as they grow up. Those who have this opportunity should understand and always remember their incredible privilege. Most people are just thrown into this world and pushed from one side to another, and they try according to skill and experience to live up to their expectations. Life can be lived in many ways, and many lifestyles can be self-satisfying even if they do come on the expense of others. Parents have kids out of selfish reasons, and kids are almost always expected to get out of the house at a certain age (age varying with varying society's). How can a kid find peace in such a stressful environment?
Humans are not bad, but we are metaphysically all egotistical, since everything we do between conception and consumption is mental and physical survivalism. Teenagers should have a school that at some period in their lives, for a year or so, wasn't about results and the fulfilling of expectations, but a growing process where we all just learned that we are all in this sinking ship together, and that it feels better and gives you a better mental hygiene if we all comfort and help each other during this period, instead of throwing the weakest person overboard, one by one. But importantly, I agree with the for the moment misanthropically smiling Raven, that the world is heading in the right direction.
From Gard: Iran has become more liberal than the US. Yes, seriously. Women can be elected to top office in Iran. In the US, the top office (ie. the President) can only be a white straight christian male.
From particlobuggo: I guess i made a little thought through statement in my comment above.. But i was thinking about the US political situation. And just threw it out in the air.. Not really considering what it meant..
From Raven: To Particle: That's okay Particle, I understood what you meant.
To Petrichor: K-PAX series of books? I don't think I have read anything of those.
To Arctic: I agree with you as well.
To Gard: That doesn't surprise me at all.
From Bernard: Hi, Raven. I enjoyed your entry, though I'm not sure I'd agree with you (Now, that's a surprise, right?) about not trying to influence one's children about what is right and wrong. That's what parents are supposed to do, I'd think, at least to some extent. But I take your point about not trying to inculcate in one's kids a particular political point of view. I doubt that would work in the long run, anyway, because I think it's a natural state for adolescents and young adults to want to rebel against their parents. So in that regard trying to make them into your political clones would probably only defeat that intention. In my own case, I know I was very much the radical liberal when I was younger (That's another surprise, right?) and I would argue all the time with my mother about things. But I have become quite a bit more conservative as I've grown up, and I think that's probably typical. But it's interesting to me that as I've changed my views on things over the years, so has my mother. So I guess we've both learned a few things from talking with each other. And I'm glad for that. Oh, and Gard. You aren't in any way correct about your assertion that "In the US, the top office (ie. the President) can only be a white straight christian male." The President can be any native born citizen. In fact, there is speculation that Condi Rice, the newly confirmed Sec. of State that is replacing Colin Powell might one day run for President. But then, people are saying the same thing about Powell. So, if you notice, that make two black people--one male, the other female--who are being talked about for the position. And I would vote for either one.
From Raven: To Bernard: I said in my entry: "I wouldn't want anyone to tell the child, what is right or wrong. An instrument, sports or good grades, should not be the way for a kid, to get attention from it's parents. A political party should not be an illustration, for what is politically correct. Love and care don't come with strong moral boundaries, or a barn solution that puts everyone in a box." Meaning; you don't have to use politics, religion, or culture to show a child that you care. I was taught many things as a kid, but I was never forced to entertain my parents, by certain rules.
I think a mature parent, would want to teach the child to think for itself. Learn the child to use it's head, question things and make little decisions on it's own. Naturally the child must be protected, but protection, education and love doesn't come with a set of mind bending rules.
I grew up seeing kids get pushed around and abused by their parents, everyone have seen this. I didn't understand it then, but I see it now. People ARE formed by their parents and many kids NEVER rebel against anything whatsoever, when they become a teenager. They are too manipulated, too abused by adults to even think of it. It's easy to spot the helplessness in the mind of some people, if you really stop and look at them. These people have lived their whole life serving others and everything just moves around them and they rarely speak for themselves.
So it does work in the long run Bernard. People are manipulated to feel and think a certain way and the culture and environment that you grew up in, will always colour your existence.
It's not a surprise that you were are liberal when you were young. I think most, if not all people, are natural born liberals and then some of them just grow old and boring and conservative. Deep down we are all liberals by nature, but of course we can call it something else.
I don't think the President of USA today, would have to be a white male. I think it could be possible for them to put up a black woman. It obviously doesn't matter at all, if the person is black or female, as long as it's a hardcore bitch from hell. But I don't think it would work, if the person weren't a Christian, or if it was gay, or if it actually weren't into all the crap the systems are up for. Later on it will be easier, for other types of people, to have a valid influence. Times will change, but personally today, I wouldn't vote for a white Clinton or black Conservative woman. They wouldn't change anything. In case someone misunderstood me; Of course I would never vote for any conservative, at any time. Hell, I wouldn't even vote for a Democrat. And women are just as terrible as men, many female politicians have pulled the nature of womanhood down the drain, a long time ago.
From Flaming flamer from the flame of the Statue and concept of Liberty: Im going to throw in a fireball of a statement in my usual style and it is: There is no real democracy in the USA today. And i belive it has not been for quite some time.. And the last few nails in the coffin of lady liberty is being hammered in with Bush. The final leg towards Corporatism. Democracy in the USA has become a show for the sheep who think they have any influence on anything at all. Id rate the level of remaining US democracy between 10 and 20 % at this time.
From Publius: Democracy will never be truly attained... Why ? Americas founders warned of why! They despised it! Todays American politicians, excuse me, demagogues talk about Democracy while using the media and the ignorant masses/ mob mentality to do as they please. American Democrats as well as republicans both fundementally believe that the US Constitution and Bill of Rights can be made null and void or circumvented through new laws. That of course is not true in a legal sense.. so the coming war will be the people against the government. That can only be won through non violent organized civil disobedience. So I say fuck total democracy...Still I do pledge my loyalty to the Democratic Constitutional Republic of The United States of America. It is disgraceful that my country has become the main symbol for contempt of liberty instead of granting it. As far as Democrats, Republicans, Whigs, Libertarians, Socialists, Communists, Anarchists, or whatever you may be...,. think before you judge a problem and remember that you have a brain. Do not pre-judge a situation based on your political philosophy befor eyopu even know what the fuck is going on. Americas two main founders, Washington and Hamilton were if anything "realists" and did not see things in such a close minded ignorant viewpoint. Please keep that in mind when using your brains, as shall I. The comments btw up above left are great, if anyone wonders where my wrath is directed. My "wrath" is dircted at everyone because we aare all responsible for the world we live in. Yet I sincerely believe that someone who actually would care to read my dribble rant here would ignore helping someone if they witnessed a crime being comitted and act like it never happened. Anyway enough ranting on by "mwah".. As ALWAYS a great entry Raven...
From Raven: To Flaming Flamer: That's true of course, although lots of Americans doesn't seem to care about that, as many of them voted for Bush. It's a bit silly that the same country, wants to try "help" another country by establishing democracy. A country that lies in ruins and are still shattered by war. Of course their methods are typical and nothing shocks me. It's our human nature, we like to create things, then destroy it and decide we have to start all over again. Countries use billions of money, on their destruction to create. The only thing that would shock me, is if the current American government, actually tried to do something related to peace, by not using bombs and guns and cash. Things always gets a lot worse, before it gets better. I guess we have to become terrible, in order to understand that we should have to change.
To Publius: Thanks for reading! I heartfully agree with you as usual. Although I hope we will see better times and greater political resolutions in our lifetime. I also agree and believe in organized civil disobedience and I would support it and help funding it, if we would have to end there. Because although I am a Pacifist, I am willing to fight and die for what I believe in (even though I have claimed something else). And yes, we are ALL responsible of the world we live in and no country is better than another, we all have our parts in the things going on.
From Bernard: Raven... gee, I try to be nice and all I get for my trouble is you calling me "old and boring and conservative." ;) Oh, and speaking of democracy, something happened today: http://iraqthemodel.blogspot.com/2005/01/people-have-won.html
From Raven: To Bernard: :D Sorry about that Bernard, I'm sure you are not going to take it personally. I know some people of the conservative branch that are not grey, nor boring. And since I don't really know you, I cant really judge you. It's just my opinion from my point of view.
Thanks for the link! Iraq is a model yes and a testrabbit. And the American government are desperately trying to cover up all the violence, mayhem and destruction, by making people believe that their warfare was all good in the end. The voting was put up now, because the Americans wanted a fast, steady and brutal war to end in their spirit. Nothing more. I'm sorry to say that I really do have, such little faith in these systems.
Even if democracy are established later on in Iraq, I still wouldn't change my mind. I have no respect for the foreign politics, your government are running. It's not like this war was not shaming your country. It's not like they aren't in total ignorance of the safety and freedom, of the Iraqis by putting up the voting at this moment. I seriously doubt it was done for the Iraqis, because if they really cared about the polls they would have waited with the election, until they had better options available. I read that the Iraqis had little, or no info on who to vote for and this is beside the fact that it's still a war going on down there. And the Americans haven't even left yet. Why the damn rush I say? It's not like those who are there to battle the systems, will be less aggressive just because a new leader are elected. It's not like they are going to respect it I'm sure.
I admire the Iraqis that dared to stick their noses outside their own houses to vote, if I was one of them I probably wouldn't have done it. And if this looks good in the end, why not have some more wars? Why not just forget about all the shitty stuff then and lets go attack more defenseless countries? Why stop now?
From Bernard: Raven, concerning your comments about conservatives, no offense taken. None taken over your anti-American screed concerning the Iraqi election either, although I must say I see things much more favorably than you do. And apparently, many Iraqis do too. Of course you are right, the election was not perfect and people stepped forward to vote at some little or great risk, but doesn't that says something about their desire and determination to be free? Frankly, I don't understand the criticism that progress should be delayed just because the situation confronting someone might not be as favorable as could be wished. There is a saying: "The perfect is the enemy of the good." I take that to mean that if you insist on perfection you necessarily reject that which is merely good, with the consequence that you will end up with neither.
From Raven: To Bernard: I'm not Anti-American just because I don't agree with the American government, I have tried to explain this before and I prefer not to say it again.
And I wrote in my previous comment, that I admired the Iraqis for their courage, I would be a total wimp compared to them in this case. And it's good to hear that they are able to be faithful. But I knew the war supporters were going to suck up, in support of the violence once again, when the election came up. Most of them disappeared after the torture pictures from Abu-Graib, but not for good I'm sure. But I have nothing new to say and neither do you.
And seriously Bernard, on perfection; I have tried to explain to you over and over and over again, that I am not looking for a perfect political situation. I can go way way back into our discussions and quote myself. And I could quote myself over and over again:
Again you mention perfection. And I have replied to you about this before. I will quote myself, in a comment I made to you, in an earlier comments entry; "I don't think perfection is an ideal for any society. I wasn't talking about perfection, I was talking about trying to put some sensitivity into politics. People get killed and die because of a lot of sad things in life. We cant fix everything. But we can learn from it cant we? Grow? Change? No? It doesn't mean that we will make things perfect, it means that we at least try, to learn from the past. I don't think bombing a country proves us that we have changed, or that warfare have evolved itself into something better".
I really don't like to say things twice.
And about your saying "The perfect is the enemy of the good." -I thought the Conservatives were suppose to be all so perfect? For example, not caring about the rights for gay people and overall being quite ignorant, about things they consider to be less than perfect. I have never in my life voted for a perfect political party, I have always voted with my heart.
From Publius: I have to add more on so ... : These elections held in Iraq, are just like the ones in Afganistan a complete joke, and a bad one. Any ignorant fool call claim DEMOCRACY! YAY! FREEDOM! ELECTIONS! But what does that poor smuck know about the history of demoractic government? Big Money controlled "Demagogues" along with the big money controlled media have helped make pawns out of the ignoant public mind, and they count on these ignorant saps support, for without it they would have nothing. So anyone who wants to be a cheerleader for these corrupt souless fucks go ahead, but know this.. your ignorance and stupity makes you just as guilty for any crime they committ. Ignorance is not an excuse! Elections can only be held if their are campaigns, a secure country, and freedom of the press. None of those exist in the American controlled Iraq. To proclaim that having these elections is helping give freedom to the people of Iraq is a hoax and an outright lie. Just as it was to the people of Afganistan who are under a puppet government without any power at alll, while drug/warlords run the everything. Of course no one has ever heard anyone mention Badshah Khan since 9/11 and that to me says more about America than anything. One more thing.... I have heard constantly that if someone does not agree with the bureaucratic policies of the US governmemt then they exhibt an un-American or anti-American philosophy. Such slander is disgusting and those who would let such shit come from their mouths when it should come out their assholes. If anything is un-American then look at in a legal sense. Many look back on what happened to the Native Americans in the 19th century as a crime in which the US government was complicit in. Well to a degree they were, but when push comes to shove, the Supreme Court did rule in favor of the Cherokee in 1832, Worcester v. Georgia. While federal and state governments have constantly broken this ever since (one reason that AIM is around now), the law was truly on their side, sadly the people were not. So to look at something like US-Iraq war, which is what it really is, should be seen in a legal sense to get a clear understanding. Does President Bush have the constitutional authority to take the nation to war? No that is unconstitutional! No matter what congress says it is unconstititional! Now if Congress declared War that is another matter which is legal. What all this comes down to is a respect for law, which is what the United States was founded upon. Even the civil war was fought partially for this reason. Frederick Douglass believed in the Constitution and that slavery would be legally abolished, and Lincoln agreed with him. President Bush, his administration and all those on Capitol Hill are sworn to protect the Constitution, and have failed. The Constiitution is the chief legal authority that protects the people from government abuse and they have abandoned it when any whim and sign laws into action that are repugnant to it, which is illegal! If anything that is un-American! So it comes down to respecting the law. But just as with religion mankind holds the law up while not obeying it. I have been called un-American... un-patriotic, anti-American, and even told that I should leave the country for which I have such critism for. Critism is healthy and for those who choose to slander myself and others, you words speak more about you than they do about anyone else.
From Publius: criticism*
From Bernard: I must say I am simply confounded by Publius. He may think the elections in Iraq and Afghanistan are a joke, but the people who voted in them obviously did not. I give rather more weight to their opinion than his. So I will not waste my time arguing with someone who has so little regard for the will of the people. As to your point, Raven, you say you do not like repeating yourself, and neither do I. However, I felt it necessary to respond to your initial comment that it would have been better if "they would have waited with the election, until they had better options available. I read that the Iraqis had little, or no info on who to vote for and this is beside the fact that it's still a war going on down there. " So, to be clear, it was you who critized a good outcome because it was not (in your mind) good enough. The intent of my comment was to observe what I find to be true, that one can always criticise something because it could have been better. But rational people dealing with the real world are sometimes content to receive the best outcome one can logically expect and work from that point, rather than delay a good outcome indefinitely in what may well be a vain expectation of something better.
From Raven: To Publius: Well said! And thanks for picking up and saying something, about the Anti-American ignorant point of views.
To Bernard: We see things differently Bernard. Sometimes I'm wrong and often I have admitted to be wrong, but to keep an open eye to all possibilities, are a wise and mature decision at all times. I have seen both sides from the TV screen and the papers; Afghanistan are better now, Afghanistan are much worse now. You don't know what to think and I'm not going to take anyones word for it. Not even those who are talking, from those countries were it involves. I'm a very sceptic person.
So the thing I care the most about, are the pictures and video clips that I have seen. I saw a documentary aired in Afghanistan not long ago, containing people that were not very happy, about the current situation there. Voices lie, but pictures usually don't. I remember the extreme bombing of Iraq in the news, the dead and wounded people and children. The terrible pictures. And the attitude from the leading men; they never showed any empathy, or real genuine concern for the hurt and dying. I have been looking for it; But I have never seen it in the eye of Bush and his people. Not once. And I will always despise the attack forces, for these things. And seriously Bernard, it's not right of us to forget, what they did and still ignore!.
So no Bernard; it's not good enough in my eyes. And this is not about what the people in these countries are suppose to feel, this is about war and wounding and killing a lot of people for a cause. If they had circus parties in the streets afterwards, it still wouldn't justify the war. It's not a good and decent way, to try fix a problem. Because if someone raped and slaughtered my whole family and bombed my neighborhood, I wouldn't feel happier if the government decided to bomb, the country that attacked us. And if it gave me more opportunities in life, I still wouldn't agree with it. Why should another family have to die for me? Why should their houses be destroyed, in order to create a better world?
And in my idea, there is nothing rational about warfare, or an attack military. And the people that disagree with warfare in the first place, are not going to change their minds, just because the victims cheer for them. Standing against this war, have nothing whatsoever, to do with peoples happiness or freedom, it has to do with opposing murder and mayhem. If it was up to me to decide, there wouldn't necessarily be better situations, or happier people all at once. But there would be no super nation, that could decide what to do, outside it's own borders.
From Raven: Damn Diaryland have banned LISTS of links in comments now! So I wasn't able to post up everything I wanted here. I sent them a complaint, because at least you should be able to post whatever you like in your own diary. So just so you know it, if it says BANNED when you try post a message here, it means you must leave out some links. It's not me that actually banned you, because I get the same message as you do. I would feel bad if anyone thought I banned them, for whatever reason. I know it's because of all the commercial spam, that have been spreading lately. A link: Most Afghans Say Rights Abused.
From Raven: Lets see if I am able to post this one up: Real Freedom Still Far Off.
From Publius: If I went to Afganistan I could have voted in their election. Also the way things are run in there, it really does not matter who is elected, because they have virtually no power. The US did not help the people of Afganistan set up a country in which tthe people are empowered. Now the US is doing the same thing in Iraq and who knows where else in time to come. If anyone thinks that is a fair way then maybe they believe that it is okay to hoodwink and manipulate others. Again all this talk of Democracy is void of any real understanding of it, and what is actually taking place. We all now live in a culture with an extreme level of propaganda, and better wake up to it. Others may read this and that and find it true, but look at the big picture of history on all sides. I would like to see a properly set up government in Afganistan and Iraq, but this is just not happening, and many well educated people agree.
From Flaming Liberty: I think i COULD have voted for a "Conservative" if he/she was a GOOD MAN/WOMAN.. But "good" in my mind excludes BAD things.. Such as profusely saying things that are not true, twisting truth, constantly saying plausible lies/halftruths to get their will, trampling on people who are poor. And of course KILLING people. Which includes bombing nations to accomplish a vague political goal. As well as vying for world supremacy such as the plan of the Bush administration is (or rather known as the new world order freaks) plus more but i dont have the energy to list more stuff.. Sure it would be nice to have a world with peace but do you really think killing the entire worlds population of Muslims is a good way to make world peace?? "Wohooo! this rocks ! We have World Peace! Now lets go for a bath in the sea of blood!"
From Bernard: "...vying for world supremacy"? "killing the entire worlds [sic] population of Muslims"? I guess Bush really IS a moron, then. Here we have all these long range nuclear weapons to do the job and yet what does he do? He sends our men and women to get killed fighting selectively house by house in some little podunque towns like Fallujah and Mosul. Even I can see how inefficient and stupid a way that is to dominate the world and/or kill all the Muslims.
From PUBLIUS: Mohandas Gandhi - "What difference does it make to the dead, the orphans, and the homeless, whether the mad destruction is wrought under the name of totalitarianism or the holy name of liberty or democracy?"
From Bernard: Publius... to the dead it makes no difference because, well, being dead, nothing makes any difference to them. But to the living there is indeed a difference between totalitarianism and liberty. Can you figure out why, or should I attempt to explain it to you?
From PUBLIUS Bombs Iran: If you "bernard" or anyone else wants to have a correspondence with me then you can figure out to go about it. Enjoy the link... Then again if YOU want to define and explain it to me or anyone else, go right ahead. But when I make comments I direct toward Raven. So try to understand in what context my words were meant. If not, then tough fuckin shit!!! As always Raven all the best to you...
From Bernard: "tough fuckin shit!!!"? Somehow, PUBLIUS, I doubt one of is capable of engaging in a civilized debate.
From Raven: To Bernard: The line "tough fuckin shit" are uncivilised?, but warfare are not? Personally I don't think war supporters, appear to be very civilised, in their ideas.
From Whats My Name?: This is from my own personally written disclaimer: The opinions and thoughts expressed in this web site are the author’s alone. Readers are reminded that what they read is not what they get, and that the message these entries attempt to be portraying may be the exact opposite of what the author appears to be saying. This is what is known as “sarcasm” or “irony". If the reader chooses to interpret this journal on a purely literal level, her/his understanding of its contents may be different from what the author intends. Therefore while the sarcastically-challenged may infer that the author is precocious, cocky and mainstream, he may actually be polite, respectful of the right to free speech no matter how vapid the speaker may be, or simply not given to arguing with the defenseless. Its too bad some don't care for my sense of humor or even try considering understanding my line of thought or tried the 2nd mp3 link I left, but well thats tough fuckin shit! Raven here is another quote for you: "We train young men to drop fire on people. But their commanders won't allow them to write fuck on their airplanes because it's obscene!" --Col. Kurtz, from the film Apocalypse Now Ooo, who!!!!
From The particlebugger: So its ok to twist words and lie if you claim to be a Christian? If you want to know what kind of man Bush is , look at the "one finger victory salute" video clip of him.. I think it was posted as a link somewhere here.. Thats a nice illustration of mr Bush i believe, and after watching that if you still think he is the born again messianic leader the mislead Christians of America think he is, then you should think more about it, and possibly conclude otherwise .. Or well.. I am getting to the point where i feel that what is true and what is a lie dont really matter anymore.. After the next engineered terror attack i bet it wont matter.. Or maybe it wont matter at all if the "Zetatalk" people are right.. (search the net).
From Dag: I have decided not to comment on American and international politics anymore .. I only end up creating a bad climate.. And i dont want to ruin Ravens page anymore by doing that.. Ill vent any frustration and anger over the subjects elsewhere .. From now on i will only comment on positive issues... ! Later ! :-)
From Bugster: AHHH Raven !!! I want some beer too !!! Alcoholfree or otherwise ! But not a lot.. Just a bottle or so... I dont drink much.. :-)
From Raven: No Dag! Do post more if you like, you are not ruining my page!
From Bernard: I know, Raven, I know... make love not war. ;p But it seems some people still haven't gotten the message!
From Raven: To Bernard: The "Fuck For Forest" stunt for the rainforest or whatever, are the most useless crap I have ever seen! Seriously, I would actually rather vote for Bush, than folks like this. They don't care about politics and they don't care about anything else, than their "fuck culture". It's sad that any youth subculture, represent these things. It's sad and aggravating. And this have nothing to do with peace, make love or any of that stuff. And they do not represent the Anti-War movement, or those who actually care about the rainforest. It's not even worth writing about, because I think it's obvious. It's the same with the Kill Him project, it goes against EVERYTHING I stand for! So do me a favour Bernard; don't mix MY ideas with people of that caliber! I am interested in politics, but in a civilised respectable manner. And let it be clear; I have NEVER EVER supported aggressive demonstrators either, nor do I have any respect for their behaviour. You can dig up shit if you look for it, in every part of the society, just as you can with the government.
When I read or see aggressive political demonstrations in the news, it upsets me. Because some of these people, are suppose to fight for equal rights for everyone, peace and such good things. But their own nature are not very peaceful. It's double standards in my idea, when a person claim that it is against warfare, but has an aggressive attitude. I don't think it serves any good. Personally I disagree with all types of violence and it doesn't matter where it comes from. I disagree with the violence that Bin Laden support, but I also disagree with the violence Bush supports and I equally disagree with the violence of those who demonstrate against him.
The "Fuck For Forest" people didn't respect peoples personal boundaries, they had sex on a stage for all to see. This was not a private nudist club, where everyone knew what was going to happen. In that way, they were criminal and they only make it more difficult, for the respectable projects to seem valid. And that's the way it is, with the anger against the corruptness of the governments as well; Those people that think it's fine, to trow beer bottles on an Anti-Gay politician, makes it hard for the Gay rights movement.
Because it's never okay to trow beer bottles at anyone, for any reason! It's never okay to sell sex for a political cause, or to use the slogan "Make Love" and let people believe that sex and peace have anything to do with each other! A large part of the Hippie movement had nothing to do with serious politics, it was a culture and we cant base politics on cultures like that. I'm not going to sell my old and well used Dr. Martens boots and let people believe, that they represent my ideas, so they should have to wear it too.
People should respect each other, be nice and learn to appreciate the differences, without trampling on it. And they should be more humble, more grateful, more sensitive in their approach and respect other people boundaries in public. There's more. Talking about being civilised with words. This is not very shocking though: "it's fun to shoot some people".
From Bernard: Raven, I didn't mean to offend you. I just came across that story the other day and thought it was funny, that's all.
From Dag: Strange.. i get the message banned when i try to post :-( It must be diaryland messing around..
From Raven: Damn Diaryland and the BANNED thing! Anyway, Bernard; I just want to make sure that people know where I stand. That they'll understand, what I believe in and what I don't believe in. Because that is important to me.
From PUBLIUS: Thank you for the article which shows the type of thinking by SOME in the US military which is completely flawed.